MNHQ here: Have you been affected by the cost of school uniform? Tell an MP about your experiences

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

Parliament's Engagement Team has been in contact and would like to hear MNers' views on school uniform cost: here's what they have to say...

"On Tuesday 5 November, Emma Hardy MP will be leading a Westminster Hall debate on school uniform costs and wants to hear about your experiences. As well as the impact of cost, she’d like to know if your child’s education has been affected by obtaining or wearing specific uniform. She explained:

“I was deeply affected by the testimony of mothers at an evidence session of the Education Select Committee. They described having to go without food to try and meet the cost of school uniform. It shook me to my core and moved me to organise RE:Uniform in my constituency - a scheme to redistribute no longer needed, but perfectly wearable, uniform free of charge. I hope this debate will allow more voices to be heard and prompt action by the Government to end highly prescriptive uniform demands and ensure access to reasonably priced items for all.”

We will pass on your comments and experiences to Emma Hardy who will use them to inform her speech. She may even quote you directly during the debate. Links to watch the debate and read the transcript will be posted when they become available.

The deadline to contribute to this debate is 12pm Monday 4 November."

Thanks
MNHQ

I think school uniforms need to be completely abolished. Nobody should go without food for school uniform.

Going without food to be able to buy stupidly expensive uniform is insane. Stop the schools insisting on a monoply on one shop and paying a fortune to them.

My kids are in primary and I'm already saving for their high school uniform.

Some schools do over rely on logo items. However most primaries i know of allow inexpensive plain supermarket uniform in the right colour, it's also usually common to be able to get good condition uniform second hand. People give it away free where I live.

Secondary academies seem to be much worse offenders. Patterned skirts & trousers costing loads, expensive logo blazers etc & generally a long list of mandatory items.

My kids are in primary and I'm already saving for their high school uniform.
I refused to send mine to a "good" school because of hideous and expensive uniform.

I think a uniform should be a compulsory thing but the cost of a lot of them - particularly in secondary school is ridiculous. Maybe forget the logo and just go with the school colours. Supermarkets stock a majority of school coloured sweatshirts etc now. Why can’t that be acceptable?
I personally prefer sending my children in uniform as it takes the pain out of deciding what they wear each day. If it’s not the kids having an opinion on clothing - teenage years etc, it’s the parents (particularly mums I find - regardless of smartness or not having a dig at where the clothing has come from...)

I think uniform should be abolished. Most other countries do fine without it. I have to buy clothes for my kids anyway. Uniform just means I have to buy them additional clothes in order that they can go to school. Quite frankly if these clothes are necessary to access education why aren't the schools providing them?

Primary school uniform can generally be bought in supermarkets it's true but it still has to be bought. I wouldn't be spending that money if the school didn't tell me to.

Secondary uniform is just ridiculous.

I have two children at secondary school now and the oldest is 6'2 (this is relevant).

Blazers are £45 each and they need two of them because, well, they're teenage boys and wearing the same poor quality fabric polyester item every day is a recipe for an unpleasant environment. Cost: £180. Just like that. The younger one has got away with a hand me down this year but tbh it looks like shit because it's poor quality and not made to last. They grow so do need new.

They also need five shirts and three pairs of trousers. Shirts I've been able to get away with buying from the children's section but the really cheap supermarkets don't stock sizes big enough for the 6'2 boy. Well Asda does in theory but I wasn't able to find any during the six week holidays. So had to buy M&S. Cost for older boy: 2 packs of three (three isn't enough): £40. Cost for younger boy from Sainsbury: £25.

Trousers have become a major issue for the older one in the last couple of years. The school requires him to wear uniform but actually there are no uniform trousers available for a boy who is 6'2 and has a thirty inch waist. So they are requiring me to buy something that doesn't exist. I have had to get him men's trousers instead, just to go to school. Cost: £66! For three pairs of trousers. Younger boy costs £30 although he's had a couple of hand me downs. He refuses to wear hand me down shirts and tbh I don't blame him.

The pe kit is ridiculous. It has to be branded and from a set supplier. A full kit costs £80 each. They are literally wearing it in a field once a week. This is the biggest waste of money uniform wise really. I don't buy new every year but just replace if they lose it which happens more often than I'd like but is inevitable in a school with no lockers when they have to get there by bus. Plus football boots plus trainers another £40 a year and that's for the cheapest.

Shoes I just go to shoezone but that's still £13 X 2 twice a year (more if they're growing particularly fast) that I wouldn't otherwise have spent because they only need these shoes because the school says they have to have them. Dress shoes are impractical and uncomfortable for teenage boys.

If you've been adding up as you go along you'll have worked out that it costs me £500 a year to buy these clothes that are only necessary because the school requires them. £500 from money I earn so that my children can supposedly be "levelled" (one of the main justifications I read about for uniform). This is around half a month's wage after tax and pension and yes it is a massive struggle. I do put aside every month when I can but still during summer we eat basic food and don't have many days out because I am spending eye watering amounts on clothes I don't want to buy, that they don't want to wear and that they only have to because the school says so. It is a baffling state of affairs.

I like having the uniform but do agree it should be colour specified but non-logo, maybe with the choice to buy a school badge cheaply that can be sewn or stuck on if they are really that bothered about it. It is ridiculous when families are barely making ends meet if that, to make them spend hundreds per child on uniform. Saying it can be bought second hand is not good enough, why should a child never be able to wear something new to school and realise they are different because of it.

Anyone working with those struggling whether at the food bank, social care, schools will have heard dozens of families struggling to buy it. I'm not convinced scrapping uniform is the answer as it will then be about the right brand clothes which will cost more than supermarket brand.

Oh and ime second hand and redistributing doesn't work. The primary tried doing second hand but there were issues around who stores the items, who organises the sales (no one wanted to as we're all busy). The sales were always on after school so I couldn't get to them because I was at work. There were concerns over quality of items. Not all sizes were available. For parents it took more time to build up a stock of wearable suitable clothes for each child than just buying new. I should imagine any redistribution scheme would hit the same problems as well as being a massive ballache and taking up time and effort to coordinate and for what? So that children have clothes that aren't necessary anyway? Just scrap it. Easier all round than jumping through hoops.

@Goodnightseamer I’m sorry but I bought both my sons uniform 8yrs and 3yrs for logo sweatshirts 4 x £32 (yes expensive but the school didn’t stipulate, they could have had none logo at £9 for 3 each) the rest of their uniform came to £75 for both - 6 polo shirts each, 3 pairs of trousers each and 3 pairs of T-shirt’s and shorts for my oldest (youngest doesn’t need them yet) all from a supermarket.

I think saying send them into school with their normal clothes is ridiculous and a lot more expensive. A good pair of jeans/ trousers are at least £8 each and the same for trousers maybe even £10-12 each.

Uniform has a place, if it’s reasonably priced/ not over priced and does the job where schools engage, There will be times when our kids have to be in business dress/uniforms too when they are older. What should they say then? Sorry can’t wear that?

I understand what you’re saying, especially about your tall son - I expect both my boys to hit at least the 6 foot mark but I think it’s more about pushing the fact that logos and specific pieces of clothing from a SPECFIC VERY EXPENSIVE provider is not acceptable to parents.

My dc’s primary is great: the only logo items are the jumper and t-shirt. Everything else you can get from the supermarket. Most kids have the logo book bags as they’re no more expensive than generic ones. There is help for pupil premium kids. At ds2’s grammar there’s just the blazer, tie, rugby shirt, shorts and PE shirt. Again, they help pupil premium kids get kitted out, including things that you get from a supermarket like the white trainers and calculator.

I’m glad for the uniform. They look smart and there is no pressure to have fashionable stuff which is more expensive and probably less suitable for school.

Our primary school is pretty sensible in that it allows us to buy supermarket uniform in the right colour, which is cheap. However, the branded jumper/cardigan costs £10 each, and you need more than one as the kids take them off and lose them and you then need to wait until they make their way to lost property. Technically we are also meant to big branded polo shirts, which helps the school fundraise, which are also expensive but in practice everyone sends their children in with plain ones and luckily nothing ever gets said.

Shoes are also an issue, as we need to buy 3 pairs (school shoes, trainers, sandals), and the trainers must be left at school all term so can't be the same as what your child wears at weekends or after school to run around in. This really adds up as shoes are expensive, and the school-style shoes aren't necessarily that supportive or comfortable so you feel you are wasting money. I don't see why at primary age they can't be allowed just to wear any plain coloured supportive shoe, which they could also use for PE, instead of having to buy different pairs.

Personally I'd get rid of uniform. It seems to be a weird British fetish that other countries manage perfectly well without. I'm dreading secondary level and the way tiny uniform infringements are used to punish kids and put them in isolation. If I had a choice I'd send them to a school without uniform but we wouldn't be able to get them in there as we aren't in catchment.

@Toooldfornonsense agree that at primary it's much less of an issue and far less expensive. It's when they're at secondary with compulsory blazers and branded pe kit that it becomes stupid. Incidentally is there any item of clothing that is less practical than a blazer? They're not waterproof or warm, they look like shit quickly because the fabric is poor quality and they cost twice as much as a winter coat from Primark.

@avocadoze good to hear children on pupil premium get so much help where you are. I've never heard of such a thing in other areas though. Generally each child whose parents are both unemployed will get one uniform grant for secondary and one for primary. They certainly don't get kit every year and they don't get equipment either. Would you mind sharing where you are as it's very unusual.

@lilythesheep secondary school uniform enforcement is utterly ott. At my sons' school kids are put in isolation for any "infringement" ie they lose a day's education for things like the wrong shoes or too tight trousers etc. Way to disengage both pupils and parents. I mean, I want to support the school and broadly I am but I can't get behind them when they act in such a stupid way.

Also, I don't get the argument how uniform is cheaper. It's literally buying extra clothes. You have to buy clothes for them anyway. Uniform means buying two lots, with the uniform clothes being unwearable anywhere outside of school and in the case of blazers and formal shoes actually unsuitable in terms of practical and robust everyday wear for children.

Re the "everyone is the same" argument - I'd much rather have "pressure to have fashionable stuff" - which can be counteracted by robustly inclusive school policies and parental and school bolstering of self esteem anyway - than diktats to buy special clothing to access education.

Uniform as preparation to dress for work is also a spurious argument. Most jobs don't require uniform. For those that do, it doesn't take 15 years to learn how to wear one. For those that don't, having to wear uniform actively discourages the kind of responsive thinking necessary to determine what is suitable within a workplace dress code.

I honestly can't think of a legitimate argument in favour of uniform and my life would be much easier if I didn't have to buy it.

@Goodnightseamer the isolation for infringement seem extreme and I’m totally with you on that. Completely unnecessary if the school had a better uniform policy.

It does sound like I’m blessed with a uniform policy here that isn’t based on utter ridiculous standards or plain snobbery.

Kids require basic things at school. A sweatshirt/blazer, shirt/polo shirt, trousers/skirt, dress etc and then general PE kit - t shirt, warm top too, shorts, trousers etc.
Netball skirts or hockey socks not required as are netball knickers 🙄

The logo requirement is completely ridiculous - period. In terms of child safety especially, is this a good thing in terms of showing what school your child attends?

Like school uniform, don’t like the preciousness around specific logos and lot they don’t need

@Goodnightseamer I’m not with you on uniform being cheaper though. Yes as it is with some schools at the moment it would be cheaper but if we are able to force the issue with schools that there should be a standard that didn’t involve ridiculous logos and pieces that our children didn’t need, you would find it is cheaper. Kids go to school a majority of they year - having to kit them out in a reasonable school uniform (this is the key here) is most likely significantly cheaper than kitting out your child in clothes for the full year

@Toooldfornonsense omg I never thought about safety issues with logo before but you're dead right of course. There are lots of children for whom it's not a good idea to advertise where they go to school.

I do think bringing my kids up would have been a lot cheaper if I hadn't been buying two lots of clothes. They need clothes other than uniform anyway and as I've replaced as they've grown they've never actually worn clothes out as such. Particularly when ds1 went on his massive leap to 6'2 I was buying clothes at a rate such that they barely got any wear at all, but I was buying two lots of them. It was a really expensive time but would have been a lot less wasteful if I'd only bought, say, a few pairs of jeans and some t shirts every time he went up another two inches (which was approximately every day).

Pupil premium is not fit for purpose. So many people not eligible to apply for certain benefits, however does not mean they are not struggling financially.
Logo'd uniform or using a specified provider only just seems like schools are out to make a profit from uniform sales. Would be interested to know how much my two sons school make on commission or similar from the one company that all parents have to use to purchase uniform.

I was blown over by the cost of DD's secondary school uniform. For context, I come from a non-uniform country and still can't see any point in them.

Blazer - £80 - specially made with piping and badge, it is dry clean only so another £10/every half term.
Skirt - £45
Jumper - £38
open neck shirts - 3 packs of £18 each
only available from 2 suppliers who cost all the same

PE kit:
Skort with logo/badge, Shorts, full name embroided top also with badge, Tracksuit top, hockey socks - £100 - only one supplier

Luckily only plain white trainers but still another £35, also shin pads, hockey gloves, it all adds up.

Only dark coats are allowed (and then the head is concerned about traffic security while dressing everyone is dark navy and black)
This is your bog-standard state girls secondary school.

Why? I do understand a kit if a child plays sport for a school team. But why on earth a full logo-kit for normal PE lesson? The top is 100% polyester, I had to get desinfection out to get the sweat smell out this half-term.

We do can afford it but I also have to buy decent clothes for weekends/holidays. DD is out of children sizes mostly, so clothes and shoes are getting expensive, her last school shoes set me back by £60 thanks to her unusual feet shape.

I do like school uniforms.
But.
They need to be affordable and if logoed then they need to have a good few local suppliers, including one very cheap.
And they need to stop changing uniforms, because handmedowns are so important.

Our town has a Community Wardrobe, which is a charitable collection of uniforms for all local schools, from the schools and from lots of other drop off points through the town.
In the school holidays they distribute (washed and ironed) uniforms in venues such as churches, all free.
The idea is that families give their outgrown uniforms to the Wardrobe and other families can collect them, free of charge.
I know that we couldn't afford school clothes if it weren't for that and our own "handmedown tree" amongst friends at school.
My dd is growing so fast, she's 7 and wearing age 9-10.
More towns need community wardrobes - especially if you don't have friends who know you need the uniform!

I think uniforms are a good idea but they should be affordable. My dc's main school uniform isn't too bad apart from the blaser, it's the pe kit that's a nightmare. Indoor kit, outdoor kit and football boots that are only worn a couple of times a year.

I wouldn't mind school colours, something like black trousers, royal blue polo or white shirt and navy sweatshirt or jumper for example. Get rid of logos and school specific uniform though.

I don't get the 'uniform is cheaper' argument, they are at school less than 200 days out of 365, so still need clothing for all seasons for the rest of the year, including holidays, so realistically enough uniform and other clothing to last a week each.

Agree that it would be easier if it was generic and could be bought from supermarkets and for parents commenting on here with kids at primary school this is usually the case so they probably don't get the issue. It's a whole different ball game at secondary though. Every single school in our authority requires a blazer at secondary. You cannot avoid it. You have to spend that money.

Plus I think when you look at the actual items of clothing I do ask myself why are they required? I mean, what purpose do they serve? Formal shirts, shoes and trousers aren't compatible with what kids do and what they should be doing. Really if you were to design a uniform that meets the daily needs of children in terms of activity and comfort it would be t shirts, joggers and trainers. And trainers are incidentally way better for their feet than formal shoes.

Also thanks for agreeing about cost. I cannot see how having to buy two lots of clothes is cheaper than buying one. Even adults who work in places with dress codes find this - it took me ages to build up a suitable working wardrobe when I entered the workforce because I wasn't just buying work clothes but I also had to be dressed at other times!

I don’t think looking smart is a bad thing and in secondary children do not run around and are that physical active anymore than in primary. But jeans, decent tops and whatever shoes they like should be acceptable.

In Germany every school trying to establish some kind of code stopped after a while. They do have issues with crop tops or similar unsuitable attire in Summer but normally that is dealt with quickly.

This Summer DD still had to wear a blazer despite being 25 degrees plus, she stunk when she came home. School buildings are not modern office blocks with air condition, hers is a relic of the sixties with small rooms, windows can’t be opened properly or shaded efficiently.

Uniform also doesn’t take a girl’s body shape into account. I don’t mean weight but things like hips and breasts. We are near one school who has blouses with ties for girls, everyone who is not a B-cup looks absolutely awful in them. No adult would choose to go out looking so unflattering, why do we make teenagers to do it.

@reluctantbrit agree that jeans, trainers etc are fine. I buy these for my kids anyway - obviously, we all do. Would be great if they could wear them to school as well and I didn't have to buy additional clothes.

I also agree with the types of clothing that uniform entails being unfriendly towards fluctuating shapes and sizes that girls in particular go through in adolescence. It can be tricky for boys as well; my eldest is a beanpole, that's just how he's made, and once he got past the age where trousers were adjustable he spent years wearing clothes that didn't fit because UK children's sizes go up by width and height proportionally. So if the trousers were long enough they were massive at the waist. He looked, to be frank, a fucking mess. Not smart at all but yes expensive alright.

And having to wear a blazer in the height of summer is I agree just fucking stupid. Even in places I've worked that had corporate dress codes everyone took off their jackets in summer except if they were meeting a client. I have to use dettol on my boys' blazers during hot summer months ffs.

Logo'd uniform or using a specified provider only just seems like schools are out to make a profit from uniform sales.

I can't understand why is this even legal in state schools. That really conflicts with the idea that primary/secondary education is supposed to be free.
And obsesion with formality is completely insane. Children don't need blazers and ties.