Scrapping of Common Entrance

[wineandolives5]

So I read in The Sunday Times the Common Entrance exam is being scrapped within 18 months. Will Eton, Harrow, Winchester take pupils at 11yrs old? How does this work for boarding schools?

Many already pretest at 10/11 and have their own alternative entrance tests. Prep schools are developing their own year 7 and 8 curriculum.

My boys dont even have room in the boarding house for a trunk,so dont think Eton are suddenly going to find space for another 500+ boys..

My son is expected to sit the CE in Summer 2021.....do these changes now mean he is not expected to sit the CE exam?

Rumours have been circulating about this for years, I doubt it will be abandoned just yet.

Many schools don't use common entrance any more.
Both of the schools that DS2 will sit for don't and he'll just sit their exams in Jan 2021. His prep still make them sit common entrance though.

Winchester doesn’t use CE it writes its own entrance exam for yr 8 I guess others will do the same. I can’t see Eton Harrow et al taking 11 yr old as said above from a practical point of view most lack the physical capacity to take anymore.

ISEB were reported only as saying it was being reviewed, not scrapped. Some senior schools intake at 13+ but select earlier and fund prep school for year 7 and 8 for those not already at one ( ie. State school pupils). Others have introduced their own year 7 and 8 school separate to the main school.

Just done a quick looksy on the alternatives to CE and the PSB (Prep School Baccalaureate) appears to be making strides on this front.
They have even recruited the ISEB (which is now being increasing adopted for the 11+ - Winchester joined the ISEB thus year):

www.tes.com/news/prep-school-tests-get-away-regurgitation

www.psbacc.org/about

From what I have read from the 2 links above, it appears the IB is a more rounded offering compared to the CE which is only academically focused on regurgitation of facts.
Sadly, I don't think my DS' school will adopt the PSB in time as he has already started the cycle of practising CE papers

My son has recently started at one of the schools you mentioned @wineandolives5. I'm not sure if they will start to take boys at 11 but I do think that the days of prep school until the 8 are numbered, especially boarding preps.

They sell themselves on securing a place for your son at a top senior school but in my opinion do very little at all. The pastoral care my son received was so poor that we nearly gave up on the idea of boarding for senior school. With hindsight I wish we have used a state school until the end of year 8.

In the last few weeks I have seen what excellent pastoral care looks like and my son absolutely loves his new school. Each boy is treated with respect ( something reserved for the selected few at his previous school.)

I have a feeling that prep schools will be trying to hold on the common entrance / Winchester entrance for as long as possible. Both Winchester and Eton have exams which state school boys can sit .

St. Paul’s and Westminster have changed their system. I suppose it’s the protest and school reports?

We were at Eton yesterday to look round and the head of admissions specifically referred to the Times article and said that we shouldn’t take it seriously and that Eton has no plans to abandon CE (as a condition of entry once you’ve passed all their pre-test/interview etc). Very few schools now use CE as the main selection vehicle - Oundle does I think?

I'm not sure that they will take younger pupils just that they won't use CE as an entrance criteria. Some schools I know are scrapping CE completely and others are just sitting the core subjects, allowing more curriculum flexibility. Year 8 up being a dull revision year - so I think it's to try to stop that

There are a few issues with CE

1. hard-to-get-into schools like Eton select pupils based on their pre-test at 10, not on CE
2. virtually nobody “fails” CE any more so what’s the point - it’s just a setting mechanism
3. prep schools would actually rather teach a more fashionable integrated curriculum from 11 to 13 rather than old fashioned separate subjects
4. there’s a perception that what with 11+, GCSEs and A levels, pupils don’t need extra pressure at 13 too

On the other hand

1. it keeps boys motivated post pre-test - otherwise, it’s argued, that once they know they have a place at Eton or wherever they’d just slack off and waste two years
2. it ensures that all boys have covered a broadly consistent curriculum of knowledge when they start senior school at 13

My ds has a place at one of these schools. CE was a horror: the entire Y8 seemed to be about past papers. Our experience of a small boarding prep was poor pastoral care and haphazard teaching and communications.

Starting his new school is as if someone has opened a window and let air and light in. Ds is enjoying the work and gaining confidence. I think the demise of some of these small preps would not be such a bad thing.

If small prep went due to lack of demand where would boys between 11-13 go? I guess it would be less of a problem for the likes of SPS who have a prep school but what about the few remaining full boarding schools few pupils would live close enough to attend any kind of attached prrep.

My son was down for a prep as backup at 7+ - when we applied they went to 13, a year or so later we had an email saying that once the current cohort went through they were going to stop at 11 as there was so little demand for CE.

The Common Entrance is the main set of exams produced by the Independent Schools Examinations Board. They also produce 11+ exams and the common pre-test taken at 11+ in prep schools for provisional places at 13+. As such it has become less important than it was and is more of a tool for confirmation of a place and setting than admissions.

Eton have their own pre-test then a choice of CE or their own scholarship exam at 13+. Winchester do not use any tests offered by this exam board. Many schools already have CE and some sort of internally devised entrance exams for children applying from the state sector - usually Maths, English and Reasoning papers. However, I don't see these schools suddenly dropping 13+ common entrance completely. It is good for prep school kids to have something to work towards and the senior school staff have enough to do without having to write subject-specific exam papers that fit with the prep-school curriculum.

There has been a lot of criticism of CE over the years. It remained very old fashioned, but there has been some attempt to update it by moving away from learning facts by rote and towards the demonstration of reasoning skills. This has happened in some subjects more than others.

Eton are concerned that without CE, boys will coast for two years and come to the school I ready to tackle the year 9 curriculum. Westminster apparently aren't as they have abandoned CE and not instituted their own equivalent. Perhaps knowing that a large third of the intake come from their own junior school (much the same for Paul's) gives confidence, along with assuming that they have a motivated cohort, but I think it could prove an issue over time, especially with subjects like Latin if boys have already decided they don't much fancy them

Sorry - "unready" not " I ready"

It's a tricky one.

I think that most independent day schools and some boarding schools have moved to an 11+ intake as their main admission point. This has made it difficult for lots of Preps to keep going until 13 and lots have scrapped their Yr7 and 8 and just go to 11 now. They simply didn't have the numbers to run to 13.

Preps which have maintained their Yr 7 and 8 are either struggling for numbers in those years and likely to drop them soon, or are feeders for the big 13+ boarding schools and are able to keep going. It probably means that the intakes for those 13+ schools come from a smaller pool of Preps - either linked junior schools or the small remaining number of Preps with yr 7 and 8.

For the really academic schools, the pre-test selects the best candidates and the schools can feel confident that the boys will arrive into yr9 at a decent standard or bright enough to catch up, with or without CE. For the less academic boarding schools with a bigger number of less bright and motivated boys, there could be a real worry that without CE those boys might have coasted a bit through the years after the pre-test and really not be up to Yr9 level.

What the Preps need to be providing is the kind of education supplied in Yr7 and 8 in good independent secondary schools. These secondaries don't teach a CE style curriculum which is heavy in facts and regurgitation. They don't have just 1 Latin teacher and 1 specialist scientist and perhaps 1 Geographer who came to a Prep 30 years ago because they couldn't hack it with the older kids or in a big state class, but these secondaries often have large departments of 8-10 or more staff with very modern facilities and the latest techniques and a very hands on approach to learning. I do think it's hard for many Preps to replicate the experience of a large successful independent day school in yr7 and 8...... And of course in lots of ways they don't want to replicate it - they are specifically trying to offer something a bit different - an environment where children can stay younger for longer, where they can be big fish in smaller ponds rather than the little yr7s, where they can take on leadership etc too. But they also need to supply the academic rigour and teaching styles and experiences which schools expect children to have when they start in yr9 and really have to hit the ground running, because in many schools they are straight into GCSE.

Lots of Preps are developing new curriculums. They are working with the senior schools they feed to learn about exactly what they want in terms of knowledge and skills and what those schools are doing with their yr 7 and 8s (if they have them) and looking to adjust. For some it's easier - if they have lots of modern facilities and aren't a ramshackle old stately home with lots of extensions built over the years, and if they have a flexible staff. Some though do find it difficult because CE is what they've always done and the staff are a bit set in their ways. Probably there are less and less schools like that now in reality.

So overall, I think that 13+ entry will continue to dwindle...not to nothing, because the big boarding schools will keep it going, but many other schools will take more and more at 11 instead of 13. The number of Preps going to 13 will continue to drop and a special curriculum for Prep school yr7-8s will be need for fewer students. With boarding fees high and pre-testing happening in Yr6, more parents might ask if their children are being tested in yr6 and the places available for yr7, why not just take the place then rather than delay until yr9, especially if they are not dead set on boarding.

It's definitely a changing market.

The outgoing head of Wellington announced last year that they were not going to use the Common Entrance paper anymore, so applicants didn't need to sit it. They can but Wellington won't mark it.

They have said they will just stick with their decision from the ISEB pretest and the selection days they run and just ask for an updated reference from the current school.

It is a curious one as it does kind of make you think that they don't need to bother for the next two years. None of mine have done CE yet, so this last one up probably won't anyway. It does look quite boring.

I suppose though, you could say what makes children in Yr7 and 8 put in effort if they are in a school which starts at 11? They don't have formal exams at the end of Yr8 and the kids and schools seem to do well in making progress. Is doing those years in a Prep, knowing you've secured your senior place really any different?

I think that if you're in a Prep where pretty much everyone goes at 13 and goes to schools which don't start until 13, it can be a different experience to if you're in a Prep where lots go at 11 and/or you stay to 13 and go to a school where lots or most started at 11.

For the latter, lots leaving at 11 can be a bit disquieting for those staying. They can start to feel they are 'left behind' and their Prep might be a bit 'babyish' and especially if they are going to a school where most start at 11, there can be all kinds of worries about missing the boat with friendships etc, and some of the pleasure of being top of the Prep school is lost and they can spend a lot of the time just waiting to go. Sorry to say I've known a good few like this in recent years, especially as 11+ has become a bigger intake at lots of schools and things have changed quite rapidly. To be honest, in the last couple of years, most parents I've spoken to who moved at 13 to schools with a main intake at 11, have said (either during Yr7 and 8 or yr9) that they wish they had transferred at 11 and the last 2 years of Prep ended up feeling like a waiting period. It was the knowing that others were settling in and making academic strides elsewhere and the feeling they would be 'late' joiners that made them feel like that. They did say they were pleased to pay lower fees for another 2 years though!

It's hard for people choosing now, because the market is changing fast. For those in yr5 deciding what to do and looking at schools, in 3 years time, the market might have moved on again and 13+ entry be even smaller than it is now. It is hard to know how many will remain at a a prep beyond 11 if it's in an area with great day schools and many will leave. You need a critical mass to make yr7 and 8 work in a Prep, never mind if it is doing CE or not. Personally I'd want at least 2 decent sized classes, to enable setting , enough teams etc. Many Preps are struggling g to offer that now or are having to fill up their yr7 and 8 with children who wanted an 11+ place but failed to get one....perhaps shifting the academic profile of the upper years.

I think that unless you're interested in boarding or schools which only start at 13, going at 11 really does make sense these days.

The pre-test disadvantages dyslexic students. It also places huge pressure on ten year olds to secure senior school offers/places. Children who have failed to jump through the pretest hoops at least have the chance of a senior school place via a conditional offer based on CE marks.
At the age of 13, they will have studied for an additional three years and are also more mature and therefore better placed to pass exams. To dismiss CE exams as only good for senior school setting is insulting, particularly when the CE syllabus in many subjects contains up to 60% of the material covered for GCSE.

The reality is they were rarely used for senior school setting either. After they stopped being the basis of gaining entry, setting was given as a reason for them to keep students motivated to work for them. In reality most schools set (if at all - often only maths in selective schools) based on internal tests after arrival or midyis/cat type tests.

CE was good for covering lots of knowledge. In languages, children had done most of the GCSE content and had crammed vast amounts of knowledge into their heads in order to do the exams.....but the way it needed to be taught didn’t fit with the way senior or junior schools teach today and didn’t build all the skills. And it was from a time when schools were willing and able to wait until yr8 to test children and know exactly who would come. The market is different today and schools need certainty about their entry sooner, when so many more go at 11. Once they need certainty, so dovparents, or fear missing the boat.

It used to be that a big advantage of CE was said to be that it gave kids another 2 years before exams...especially good for any immature boys. But that luxury is lost now with pre-testing and schools needing to know numbers and pin parents down to commit to places sooner. You’re right it’s stressful for 10 year olds, and it will be hard for anyone with additional needs. But that’s the way it is now. Some schools will keep CE going, but with the changes there have been to senior school entry, it really isn’t needed anymore and will increasingly be a relic. Some schools like to hold onto relics - it’s part of who they are, but in terms of genuinely serving a purpose, it really won’t be needed.

"Very few schools now use CE as the main selection vehicle - Oundle does I think?"

Schools never did - it was always a confirmatory exam, not a competitive/qualifying one. Very rare (and sign of incompetence) is a school mucked up its conditional offers and had to fail the lowest scorers

Changing CE, so that top two years of prep have a more interesting syllabus is work in progress, to some extent.

I think there will remain a demand for a substantial exam at end of final year prep, simply to ensure (as others noted) that pupils do not slack off between off and entry. It's noticeable enough when it's one and a half terms after 11+, and do not think it would be acceptable for over 4 terms.