GCSE Option that limit potential attainment

[FiddleOnTheRoof]

Hi
Really want to get my head around maths, English, and science gcse options. DC1 is approaching this and I know this will be discussed next term in school.

Maths
I am aware there are two levels foundation and higher (no intermediate) is it correct that the foundation will only get you a C/5 at best? Who decides which you can sit? Would be very unhappy if school chose DC1 had to sit this paper limiting his options to achieve a better grade.

English
Is this also split into different papers or do all children sit the same paper and all grades are available to all?

Science
I really have no understanding about double or triple science. Where has the individual subjects disappeared to (biology, chemistry and physics). What are the dis/advantages of double or triple science? Are there also papers/levels which limit ultimate end achievement here also?

Advice greatly appreciated from experienced parents. I could obviously wait until the school go through it all, but rather properly understand it all so that we can have longer to think about it all and make the right choices.

My DS was at a school that still offered the three sciences as separate subjects. Triple and double still cover all 3 sciences but to a lesser extent for double (ie 2 gcses worth as opposed to 3). It has been argued that if they are likely to do science a levels they should do triple otherwise they start off with less knowledge. But it has also been said that this can be made up if you just do double because that is what the school offers with no option to do triple.

How old is your DC because it is not usual to be thinking of options at this time of year?

Maths foundation goes up to 4 so won't limit your child in anyway. His teachers will decide based on evidence in his homework, end of year tests, mocks etc.

English no longer has tiers.

Science - not sure. I think that is no longer tiered either. Minimum is double - single no longer exists. Triple in the form of separate P, B and C exists and is popular. Often only available to top set because they have an extra third of the curriculum to squeeze into the timetable.

Combined Science consists of all three sciences, and is worth two GCSEs. ‘Triple’ Science is three GCSEs, one in each science subject. There are two tiers for each paper in both combined and individual sciences. Foundation will give grades from U to 5, higher from 4 to 9. A-level is designed to be accessible from combined science, but triple may make some areas easier through familiarity - it is not necessary to do triple to do a-levels.

To add to the confusion, AQA offer two combined science routes, unhelpfully called trilogy and synergy - trilogy has six exams, two in each separate science and synergy has the different sciences mixed up on each paper. Other boards seem to keep the sciences separate on each paper.

Sorry, grades are doubled for combined so foundation is u to 5-5 and higher 3-4 to 9-9

Choice of entry tier for maths will be made very carefully. No school will prevent a student from taking higher tier if they have the ability but it is possible for a weaker student to fall out the bottom of the marks at higher as it only goes down to grade 4. Grades 4 and 5 are also arguably more attainable on a foundation paper as this paper is more accessible and won’t be full of questions that a grade 4 student can’t even attempt. Entry will be discussed with both students and parents well ahead of time but I would allow the teachers to do their job as it is in their interests too that your dc attains the highest possible grade. English is untiered but most schools will set to ensure students are “trained” to answer the questions in the best way for their ability. Science is triple (three separate GCSEs in bio, chem, phys) or double - a mixture of all three combined into two GCSEs. Often the same curriculum time is only available to both and so triple may only be offered to top sets. Either version allows further science study but you will be better prepared for A level with all three. If you are doing triple science it is unlikely there would be any question of you being suitable for higher tier maths as it is usually only offered to the top students.

The teachers will probably decide which tier is sat in maths and science. Depending on target grades and teacher assessments. With borderline students (who I predict will get a 5) I will discuss the entry tier with the student and look at some past papers together. Last year I had a couple of parents insist their dc took the higher. They went over my head to the headteacher, who gave in to keep them happy, the both got U.

Agree with pp.
Triple science is usually only offered to higher ability students. There are foundation papers for triple but the sheer volume of content makes it quite challenging. It’s a real shame because lots of students love science even if they’re not super academic but it’s better to get two 5s in double science than three 4s in triple (IMO)

Maths foundation goes up to level 5 (I think!)
It would probably mean you can’t take Maths A level but apart from that, gcse maths at level 4/5 or above (along with an English at 4/5 level) are actually the 2 gcses you need to access higher level courses post 16.

I’m saying 4/5 because it seems the goalposts keep moving and also it depends on what post 16 establishments are asking for.

As it stands, a grade 4 is a pass.

English is ( supposedly!) a one size fits all paper grades 9-1

Science can be triple ( end up with 3 separate gcses ( physics / Chem/ Biol) or it can be double - end up with 2 grades.. less content ( but not much less tbh!). Both science courses have foundation or higher papers. Dc is just about to start 6th form and they put on an extra transition morning for those who did the double compared to the triple (and are going on to do a science at A level) to cover the extra content between the double and triple.

I wouldn’t have wanted one of my dcs doing the higher maths paper . It is so hard. Much better for this particular child to get a higher grade on a paper that they would have a hope of completing .

At dcs school, the higher ability Maths kids do the higher papers in science

Some schools do offer triple science as an option to all students- meaning it takes up extra space in the timetable and they get more lessons, but have one fewer option from the other choices- this is definitely worth asking about. This also means that in these same schools the science teachers don't decide who can and can't do triple based on ability. The new science gcse is incredibly hard though and doing combined science will in no way disadvantage your child- they will have no disadvantage if they want to study sciences at a level, and can still apply to medicine and oxbridge etc with combined science. Often the students who have done triple Science have forgotten some of the extra content by the time they start their a levels, and all content is taught from scratch in year 12 anyway. Like another poster said- top universities care much more about the quality of grades not the quantity- far far better to let's say get two 7s in combined science than 7,6,6 in triple for instance.

Science does still have foundation and higher tier papers, where foundation papers limit the top grade to a 5, but most likely your child's teachers will decide this for you based on your child's attainment closer to the time.

the higher maths paper is v hard these days - to get a level 4 last year in one of the boards you only needed circa 27%. I could see a not very confident borderline pass child being very intimidated and underperforming on a difficult paper.

Maths... The composition of the foundation and higher papers is different. Foundation has more number work, and ratios (percentages) which kids tend tobe more comfortable with. The higher has more algebra and geometry, more abstract maths. Listen to the teachers, they'll know which is better for your child.

Science is interesting, if you look at the grade boundaries double science has lower boundaries than triple. This was explained to me that private schools and grammars do triple, the kids get better grades which pulls up the marks. If the science teaching in a state school is weak then you've got a choice between two higher grades or three lower ones. I don't know if this is true although you can look at the grade boundaries and double is one percentage point below triple at the top grade. There is nothing on the triple that is necessary for a levels I am also told, but while I am familiar with the GCSE curriculum I'm less familiar with a levels. This all begs the question why anyone would do triple science, because it's all about getting the best grades, I have no answer, nor do I understand why my child is doing 8 GCSEs and that is considered as acceptable as kids in private schools doing 12!

If your son has a chance of getting the higher grades then in my experience he will be put in for the higher paper. Which paper they sit can be changed until really late. But students in lower sets will not be taught all of the techniques for the higher paper - because you need to know the basics to learn the more difficult concepts and techniques.

Most schools do try to keep things as flexible as possible at this stage.
Triple Science is often taught in the same amount of timetabled time as Double - which is why it is often limited to the top "sets" as they are expected to pick things up quickly. However students can and do go on to study A'level Science from Double Science, and even on to study for Science degrees (and a lot of Science teachers only did Double Science).
In English, the choice of texts may vary between sets, but all students sit the same exams.

"Double science" is still all 3 disciplines but Triple includes extra papers in each. Both are graded up to 9/A*. Double worth 2 gcses, triple 3.

My dd goes to a state school, will be starting GCSEs in September.
They normally offer triple Science to the top 60 science scoring pupils in the year. This year, they have reduced that to 30.

My dd loves Science but has not been offered it (as she's not a natural in it!). I've been reassured by the Head of Science that Double Science is no barr whatsoever to studying a Science at A level. We're happy with that. She has other very essay heavy subjects and I'd like to her use her time in the best way for her.

Interestingly, some pupils she knows have been offered Triple Science but gave turned it down.

My children go to private school and my son did his GCSEs (several were iGCSEs) this year and my daughter starts next term
At our school only the bottom set take the lower math paper. My son is not strong in maths but took the higher one. All other papers were the same level - no higher or lower. He did double science, English language is the one you have to get 4 and above but there’s English Literature too which the kids are obliged to take unless very weak in it. In his year the majority took 9 GCSEs, some taking more of they did a second language or triple science.
It has changed slightly for my daughter as they will do 9 plus an extra non exam subject (global business, art award etc). She will do the triple science.
First you must ask what your child is interested in. No point going triple science unless that’s a particular strong subject. Unless your child is weak in maths do the higher paper. History or geography seems to be either/or option though my daughter wanted to do both but can’t fit it in. Modern language of course. Then electives. Some private schools only do five core GCSEs (children still study other subjects). I do think this exam based system may disappear sooner rather than later.

My DD2 is about to enter y10, and is in my opinion a borderline foundation/higher paper ability.

There is no point entering the higher tier for maths if you are borderline to pass, as faced with a paper which is more or less impossible you are more likely to feel down-heartened and fail.

Maths builds on itself, and lower sets naturally go slower. For the bottom sets it will be obvious they will struggle to pass so they won't be taught anything above grade 5.
The top sets obviously will be taught more or less everything.

There is likely to be one or more 'cross over' set where the final decision on which tier will be made on an individual basis quite late, possibly only in Feb y11. This will be based on what the pupil can do, but also on things like whether they make silly mistakes (an issue for foundation paper where a higher % is needed to pass) or get dispirited (an issue with higher paper where you only need 20-25% to pass but loads of the paper is inaccessible). The crossover sets may well be taught some grade 6 stuff too, but not more.

Science has foundation and higher, and combined/dual & triple.
Triple is normally only done by more able scientists as it gets quite hard and is a lot of science. Our school has 14hours of science per fortnight if doing triple and 10 if doing combined.

Triple you get 3 GCSEs, one in each science.

Combined/dual comprises all 3 sciences but you end up with a dual award so 5-5, 5-5, 6-5. With combined all your papers have to be either higher or foundation. You used to be able to mix and match but you can't anymore. There is still a lot of content! The content doesn't seem to be much different between the tiers, but the questions are I think simpler for foundation. The required maths skills are also lower for foundation. Because the content seems to be more or less the same the decision can be made quite late on, though again for some sets it will be obvious.

On the whole you follow the guidance from the school. They are the most experienced at guiding children to the correct tiers. (I will have to fight within myself on this, as I have a maths degree but DD2 struggles. I must be careful not to push for her to do higher if she isn't capable).

English is no longer tiered.

What you have to remember is that schools want pupils to get the best grades they can, and they also want borderline students to pass. They will be doing their best to get the best outcome for your child.

Summary: It is your child's ability that limits their grade, and the tier of entry should reflect that ability.

'English' is two completely separate GCSEs - English Language and English Literature. Each of these has two lengthy exam papers, and is graded 1-9.

There is no coursework, but there is a compulsory oral presentation which is separately graded (pass, merit, distinction) and contributes 0% to the final 1-9 grade. (Thank you, Mr. Gove )

Both English Language and English Literature are untiered; pupils of all abilities are supposed to be able to access the one-size-fits-all paper. In practice, this means that those at the bottom end can (a) barely manage to read the unseen extracts upon which the Language reading section is based, and (2) really struggle to structure an essay in Literature without bullet point prompts to help them.

Again, down to Mr. Gove

Didn't make clear that the oral is for Language only.

OK others have got it pretty well but I’ll weigh in

Maths: two tiers, higher and foundation, yes the highest grade on foudnation is 5. This is a perfectly good grade though unless you want to do A level maths. If a student is on 4/5 border they are much better off to do foundation. If you drop below 4 on higher you end up with U. Also, if you are a 4/5 student, much of the higher paper will be inaccessible to you, which must be so difficult to deal with. You need to trust the teacher to some extent on this one, tho of course raise it if you feel your child is very much on the wrong pathway. Most schools set for maths, most will aim certain (lower) sets at foundation only.

English: no tiers in lit or lang any more, one exam for all. What this means for a 1-2 student is that it is a sometimes alarming prospect as they genuinely cannot access many of the questions, but heigh ho. Closed book, so you have to remember quotes and references for all your lit texts.

Science: If you do triple you get GCSEs in each individual science; if you do double you get two science GCSEs. Both double and triple are also tiered like maths (and MFL). Some schools have tripls as an option as it is a lot more work. Some offer it only to the top sets (for the same reason). Double is not essential if you are planning science A levels and it’s perfectly possible to achieve 2 x 9 but I suppose if your school offers triple and you are clever enough to do A level biology then you would usually do triple. It’s the same number of exams by the way (use to be more exams) but they are longer. Like, really long.

Double science" is still all 3 disciplines but Triple includes extra papers in each.
No longer true for the new 9-1 Science GCSEs.
For the new Combined Science (new name for Double science and worth 2 GCSEs) you take 2 papers in each subject i.e. Biology, Chemistry and Physics and each paper is 1 hour 10 mins long. You must take the same tier paper for every Science subject. There is slightly less content but the papers for Higher combined science are set to be the same level of difficulty as the Triple option.
For the new Triple Science it's really 3 separate Science GCSEs i.e. one grade for Chemistry, one for Physics and one for Biology. You take 2 exams in each subject but they are 1 hour 45 mins long. You can mix tiers for Triple Science i.e. take Foundation Physics and Higher for the other subjects, for example.
The other GCSE subject that has tiers is MFL e.g. French, German etc

Maths: two tiers, higher and foundation, yes the highest grade on foundation is 5. This is a perfectly good grade though unless you want to do A level maths.

… and no one in their right mind would be thinking about maths A level if they were borderline for doing foundation/higher!
Maths A level is for those expecting to get a 7+ (even if on the day they slipped unexpectedly to a 6).

Re triple science. Some private schools permit you to select 2 of the 3 sciences so you could end up with say Chemistry and Biology but not Physics, but the impression I have is very, very few state schools generally permit this, normally due to timetabling (SN aside, eg for someone with autism who can't cope with learning about human biology or whatever).

Well quite, Teen! Certainly anyone planning a level maths should be easily getting a 7. I was trying to clarify that a 5 is fine, incidentally, your certificate doesn't say which tier you did, just the grade.

( clay I knew you knew, just didn't know whether the OP knew. )

In DDS school all top set did triple science,it had the same timetable time as double, they increased speed of teaching in yr 9,to make sure everyone could keep up .
There was a compulsory 10 subjects which imo is too many.
Also if your child is doing art and craft be prepared for this too take over,DD took over the dining room to save time clearing(going to art college so resigned to not getting that room back for 2 more years).
I think the best advice I can give is to encourage children to ask about anything they don't get as they can get lost very quickly as the subject moves on.
Most teachers work their socks off in exam time with extra sessions and booster classes before exams .
Good luck to all those sorting this out,you have to do it all again for 6th form.We are now sailing in calm waters trying not to think about results.