Which would you recommend 11+ or pre-test

[FiddleOnTheRoof]

Hi all, in the process of trying to decide if we should submit our application for schools of interest for Yr7 entry or deferred 13+. It would mean DC would either follow the standard testing route and switch schools next year or take this ISEB pre-rest, within the same timeframe (Nov 2019) which many schools are now doing to secure a place for yr9 and allow them to stay at their prep school for longer, which is preferred.

Our concern is that the pre-test may be harder as they are effectively trying to gauge yr9 ability and we may miss yr7 entry if we went down this route and god forbide failed!

Does anyone have any experience doing this? Where can I get online practise? Is it even possible to submit for yr7 and yr9 at the same school?

Advise please!!!

You can’t apply for both 11+ and 13+ at one school.

I would recommend Aton Learning and Planet Bofa.

If you do not get a place at pre-test many schools have a 12+ option and some don’t even start testing until Yr 7.

Some schools are actually slightly easier to get into for Yr 9 than for Yr 7, as there are slightly less candidates.

Hi @trinity0097 sorry. Just so I am clear, are you saying I can apply/submit an application for Caterham and Alleyns 11+ AND 13+ deferred together now and sit both assessments and have the option of accepting whichever, providing that is DC is offered a place? This would certainly allay my concerns about missing the boat on one should the other fail...

You can apply for EITHER 11+ or 13+ at each individual school.

But you can of course enter 11+ at one at 13+ at another.

Ok... yes... I did misunderstand. My dilemma is which to do. DC is average and I suppose I’ll a little concerned the pre-test will be harder than the 11+. Do you have any experience with the pre-test?

Oh and thanks for the recommendation. Have set up a week trial with Aton and hope this will help !

The pre-test is not harder. It tests children who are 10/11. The same test is used by lots of schools and the individual schools themselves then choose the mark above which they wish to offer to. So a more popular and highly selective school will offer to those who did better in the ISEB pre test whilst a less popular school which is less selective will make offers to those with lower results too.

I assume you are considering schools which take in at both 11 and 13. Just bear in mind that schools that take in at both points are increasingly taking more at 11 than 13. Those entering those kind of schools at 13 are now often very small numbers and it is worth bearing in mind if you want that for your child - being part of a tiny entry T 13 can be hard.

I would check with the schools you are considering - how many exactly do they take at 11 and how many at se schools often prefer candidates to come at 11 as it is then 7 and not 5 years of fees.

Think carefully about why it might be good to stay at the Prep school for another 2 years. There are lots of good things such as leadership roles, and paying Prep rather than Senior fees, but Prep school Yr7 and 8 is changing. Lots are abandoning Common Entrance as outdated as a curriculum and because offers for senior schools are dependent on the ore tests not CE anymore. This is probably the right move for those schools but it also means that children in Yr7 and 8 can feel they spend their time just waiting to go to secondary and this is especially the case if a good chunk leave at 11. How many in your Prep leave at 11?

Whether it's an exam for 11+ entry or a pretext for 13+ the children are being rested in Nov/Jan of Yr6 and the tests cover the kind of things they can do at that age. It won't be the test but the selectiveness of the school that determines who gets the offers and who doesn't. So do t worry about the test issue but think more about the issues of 11/13 entry. If you're set on 13+ then go for the pre-test and don't worry it will be harder - it won't. If you're not settled on entry point think more about the proportions entering the secondaries at 11 and 13 and leaving the Prep at those 2 points.

Hi wombat that makes sense. I suppose DC could leave prep school at 11+. I was just hoping to miss the meat market feeling the 11+ seems to bring about. Absolutely hated it with DC1 and thought maybe I’d try things differently with DC2.
That said, I wouldn’t want to miss out on a place and definitely wouldn’t want DC2 to find it difficult to integrate into their new senior school due to there not being many new entrances at that stage and being late to the friendship party. Hadn’t thought about the later tbh.
How would I find out what the intake is at both stages? Do you think the school would actually give out that info?

Yes, absolutely they will if you ask. Ask all the questions you want - it's really important to ask and to know exactly what you will be getting if you stay at Prep and what you will be getting at Senior at either 11 or 13.

If you are concerned the standard expected might differ, ask about that too. Schools are used to propspective parents who are considering spending well over £100k asking lots of questions to be sure about what they are 'buying'. The more precise questions you ask, the more specific and useful information you will get.

Ask about no.s applying and no of places offered at 11 and 13.
Ask if the school prefers to admit at 11 or 13 and what they see as the advantages or disadvantages of each point of entry,
Ask if there are any changes in these patterns.

If you have both options within one school, assuming the entry process is similar and undertaken in Yr6 ready for either Yr7 or 9 entry, it will really come down to if you prefer your DC to have 2 further years in the smaller environment of a Prep school where they can be 'big fish in a small pond' or whether you think they will benefit from moving at 11 and being in the Senior school from the beginning, being a 'small fish in a big pond' for a while. There's no right answer and people choose differently, although for day schools the tide is defined ty moving fairly strongly towards 11+ entry. It is different for schools which are boarding, but I don't get the sense you are looking at boarding.

A further thing to look at for the senior school is if a 13+ intake is still being kept open, just to keep one or 2 feeder Preps which go to 13 happy. Quite a few seniors have dropped their 13+ entry altogether or reduced it hugely. This isn't always evident and not told to you by your Prep. Even if your child is at a Prep where a decent proportion stay until 13, especially if they then go onto several different senior schools, it can still emerge that your child is one of only 10 joining the senior school at 13 and over 100 or 150 joined at 11.

So no wrong or right answer, but definitely good to go into whatever you choose with full knowledge about the senior situation and also what the Prep situation for yr 7 and 8 is. Best of luck deciding, and always interesting to know what people finally decide, if you want to update us when you do decide.

I don't know which schools you are considering but Alleyns has stopped their 13+ entrance point (not sure if this is permanent or may change)

Alleyns have permanently withdrawn the 13+ entrance point

wombat your post is the kick up the backside I needed. You are so right that I should ask as many questions as I like. Not sure about anyone else but I do tend to feel that these schools hold all the cards to our DCs futures and totally forget about the £100k this privilege will cost us should we choose to accept their offer!
I may however have to wait til sept to get answers. Not sure how well the admissions office is staffed during the summer break but will deffo present them with a realm of questions. Gut feeling however now, based on how many more places you indicate are available at 11+ is just to bite the bullet and join the herd and hope it won’t be as stressful as before.
AveEldon and DarlingOscar I knew Alleyn’s had removed their 13+ entrance exam but believed you were able to still apply at 11+ and have your place deferred.... Good thing you have both pointed this out. I will need to go check Jags definitely allow a place to be deferred. I may have just assumed this for Alleyn’s as the schools are all kinda linked. Thanks for pointing this out!

wombat I will most certainly update this thread on which route we choose to take.

Update as promised.
We opted for the 11+ route. More places. Early integration. Similar settling in period to all others joining. Thanks for all the advice!

Very intesting thread as I was pondering this question today. Great you came to a decision.