Detention - for 5 year olds?

[unicorn]

Seems rather odd- to threaten detention at this age.. I just am curious what other schools do.
Briefly...
Some boys in dd's class (yr1) have been playing rather rough at lunchtime.. and this has apparently ended up with the threat of detention (I presume for the boys involved)
I am rather concerned that this is (wk 2 of a new school year) with a teacher - who has apparently alreadly labelled these boys as aggressive (FFS THEY ARE 5/6)..
I have a girl in this class... but if if I had a boy I think I would be very concerned with the way it is being handled.
Any thoughts?

I can see from my posts I am coming across as a "sod the school" type of person. I can assure you I am not - I really wish I "knew" someone on here who could vouch for me. My dd especially is the epitome of respect and kindness for all and sees good in everyone. She has never had her name on the board and has only been told off once for something rather trivial (swinging from side to side on the teachers chair whilst waiting for a classmate when the rest of the class were away ona trip). Clearly our school has a selective approach to punishment themselves which i don;t agree with either.

I do have to agree Jampot that on the face of this this opunishment does seem very unfair for the whole school to be affected in this way.

Coming back to the original question - detentions/sanctions for a 5 year old. I think we should go back to normal rules of parental praise and sanctyions (thinking Little Angells, etc.) - immediaite sanction for a punishment: time out to calm down, apologising to the 'victim' (wrong use of word I know), etc.

But some people don't run to those rules at home, and then you would get parents complaining about time out!

The headbutting child was kept in at lunch, quite reasonable I thought, it was an instant punishment for a serious bit of bad behaviour.

spitting, headbutting six year old? i would expect the school to tell the child off and make him stand outside the Head's door for his break/part of his lunch each day for a week. In addition, call his/her parents in and discuss the problem

I previously posted about a year 5 (now year 6) child who headbutted straight on the nose another junior child at the end of last term. She suffered whiplash as a consequence. The punishment was for them both to fill out a think sheet to reflect on what they had both done wrong!!!!!!

Well, I don't like a selective approach to applying dicipline either. One rule for all is essential. But if you have an issue with the schools policy, discuss it with them, don't let your child have an 'out'. As others have said that would lead to chaos.

And in many ways schools do need to be somewhat stricter than home or it wouldn't be safe. You can 'bend' the rules with one or two kids, try that with 30 and you could have a riot on your hands.

We agree and that is what happened.

Parents disagreed btw and felt the school was 'picking on' their son who was only being a boistrous boy.

See the problem?

I had a silmilar experience a few years ago- Year 7 class and one of the pupils wrote Mrs * is a stupid cow on a workpack. None of the kids would confess and even though I KNEW who had done it I couldn't prove it. I had to keep the whole class in. Not nice for the other kids but not nice either if every child wrote on work books and work packs- we'd soon run out of them and then there'd be complaints.
If a parent at our school openly flouts/ encourages their child to openly flout rules etc then there's no place for them with us. We have to have parental support and every parent receives a copy of the school rules and 'punishment' procedure before their child is accepted at school. They have to sign a contract. I have to say that I would not teach a child who refused to conform and who's parent condoned it openly.

only half read this. There is one situation where keeping a child in at lunchtime- whatever they have done- causes its own problels- and that is if a child has ADHD. It may be true to a lesser extent in other very lively children as well. Whilst its important for the punishment to fit the crime it's also important that it fits the child. For example if you shout at ds1 he will find it hilarious and immediately repeat the bad behaviour. Shouting at him loudly and persistantly may actually set the behaviour into place and you end up with a behavioural problem. SOmething my MIL just cannot get her head around.

I like soupdragon's approach- stand against a wall for 5 minutes. Short, sharp and they still have time to run off the excess energy.

I think it's important for all kids to have a run around at lunchtime to let off some steam

But that would work for one child but as you say it doesn't work for every one.
Whilst I agree with you Jimjams in a class of 30+ kids you can't be seen to 'allow' pupils to get away with bad behaviour.
We also have a SENCO to whom we turn for advice... and help... long term I wouldn't accept bad behaviour no matter what the problem... I'd try and find a solution yes but couldn't accept it long term

Yes letting off steam is important but so is behaving in class/school. I find myself keeping kids in at the beginning of a new school year (secondary so teach 8 classes) to set my 'mark' so to speak adn to prove to the kids that I follow through on punishments. Once the kids know that I'm true to my word then the reminder of the consequence of bad behaviour is often enough to stop any unacceptable behaviour.

Jimjams, I would put money on the fact that somewhere someone is complaining that being made to face the wall has psychologicaly demeaned their child and the school is not to do it again!

I agree that children do need to run off steam, but we have to have some sanctions. And we also have to set basic rules. What some parents can't seem to grasp is that we cannot have different rules for different kids (sn provision notwithstanding). I feel that schools have a duty to be fair and consistant, but we have to set rules, we cannot have 30 different sets of rules in a classroom. As you have said in the past, if you want individual education for your child you have to home ed.

A question then for those parents who don't agree with stopping a child (as a punishment) from having a break:

• what sanction would you prefer?

• what about if the behaviour requiring sanction is playground related?

• Would that make a difference to your prefered sanction?

Another comment hulababy- sure you and hmb will agree with me that anybody who thinks they can control a class full of kids with no sanctions/punishments would be MORE than welcome to a job in our schools...

Hey, I am more than welcome to invite ANYONE to come and teach that Y9 class this Tuesday. Please offer!!!

i dont think anyone's saying that no sanctions/punishments should be in place - i am all for discipline being handed out fairly to the offending child/ren however strict. If my children played up I would expect them to be punished accordingly. If it were my child who headbutted/bit/spat on another I would expect him/her to be made to apologise to the child sincerely and any privileges withdrawn ie. no art/lose one playtime each day. I would also expect to be called to the school to discuss my child's behaviour so I can implement an appropriate punishment at home./

Well I guess this is the problem isn't it. If you keep some children in the whole lunchtime then their behaviour is going to be a lot worse in the afternoon- just seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face really. Sure give a punishment- but surely more sensible to ensure that the punuishment isn't actually going to make the situation deteriorate. I do think the case for playtime is different for primary and secondary schools btw.

The "one rule for all" has at times been a problem for us. Last year it was. This year ds1's teacher (who I already want to give an award to she is fantastic) isn't like that. A couple of days ago she told me he was hungry in the morning and could I send in an extra snack. I said I could but he won't eat anything that is "allowed" (healthy eating initiative) to have as a snack. She immediately said "oh heck ignore that" so I suggested that I send in a pack of biscuits for the school to keep and use as necessary and she thought that was a good idea. Last year's teacher wouldn't allow that - although the LSA did try and sneak him food- so they had a hungry child who therefore was in a bad mood a lot of the time.

my son's infant school have a good system I think.they have particular set out rules that all the children know.If they abide by the rules all week and behave well,then on a friday afternoon they have special time when they can choose an activity to do.If they break the rules then they lose some of this time.The amount they lose depends on the severity of their behaviour.The time they lose they have to just sit quietly,watching everyone else.Sensible and not too severe for littlies of 4 and 5.Lines are ridiculous at this age,it's taking a skill that they are only just learning and using it as a punishment,which I imagine would put them off learning big time.

re: healthy eating in school.

Child A : brings in pack of snakajacks as a morning snack (1% fat or something like that)

Child B: brings in a packet of 12 shortbread fingers to be given 4 each day by the teacher.

Which you would prefer as healthy eating?

I do think where a child has SN and obviously different needs, allowances do have to be made. At secondary school many ppupils can see and eacdept that too.

but it's well known that autistic children often have eating disorders! There are books written on it- unfortunately very little professional help though (a very oversubscribed clinic at GOSH and that's it) it's why special schools don't follow the healthy eating initiative. My point being at times there has to be flexibilty if inclusion is to work- and that does mean binning the "one rule for all" idea.

Depends on the child though obviously. I would expect ds2 to follow the healthy eating initiative because he can, but ds1 can't. When he had the "one rule for all" teacher it meant he was hungry until lunchtime- especially if he hadn't eaten breakfast. Now he can be given biscuits discreetly if necessary so that he actually has the energy to cope with a mainstream classroom. As a consequence this year he is spending more time in the classroom and more time working.

hulababy- if explained to them primary school children (and nursery children) are very good at accepting SN as well. At nursery ds1 was often treated differently- and if you asked any child there they would tell you why "ds1 finds it difficult to talk so he has to do x, y z" The children at ds1's primary are great with him- across all age groups, a lot of older children come up to him and pat him on the head and ask him how he is. They do understand why he is treated differently.

Is "one rule for all" teacher aware of the effects of autism jimjams?

For ds's class homework last week they had to complete a food pyramid showing foods that they eat often/sometimes/never. My friend's ds has CF and therefore needs a high fat diet so his often foods has read as "chips/chocolate/cake/ burgers/ etc/