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Education

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Detention - for 5 year olds?

90 replies

unicorn · 17/09/2004 22:30

Seems rather odd- to threaten detention at this age.. I just am curious what other schools do.
Briefly...
Some boys in dd's class (yr1) have been playing rather rough at lunchtime.. and this has apparently ended up with the threat of detention (I presume for the boys involved)
I am rather concerned that this is (wk 2 of a new school year) with a teacher - who has apparently alreadly labelled these boys as aggressive (FFS THEY ARE 5/6)..
I have a girl in this class... but if if I had a boy I think I would be very concerned with the way it is being handled.
Any thoughts?

OP posts:
jampot · 17/09/2004 22:34

yep - loads of thoughts unicorn. DS's classmate B was bitten on the hand by the son of a teacher at school G deliberately (have previously posted about demon teacher child). B's mum popped into school just after it happened at lunchtime to give her son his creons (he's CF)and found him crying. Saw teacher about it - nothing happened. Later in the day B was playing with his bestfriend R and the year 1 teacher thought they were playing too rough so gave B a detention!!!! Where is the sense?

Also year 1 teacher also gave my son lines for forgetting his pe kit - he could barely say the bloody words let alone write a page of them - and anyway it was ME who forgot his kit...

jampot · 17/09/2004 22:36

IMO detentions handed/threatened so easily so early will only serve to have no effect at all. Apparently at our school if you have more than 3 detentions you have to go home at lunchtime...

Also our school sometimes make the whole junior or infant department stand in line for the whole playtime/lunchtime if one or two kids are being silly/noisy..... not sure I understand the logic in that. I just told my dd to take longer over her dinner....

MeanBean · 17/09/2004 22:44

Has the world gone back to the nineteen fifties? I'm confused... what on earth is the educational theory they are using for all this?

Hulababy · 17/09/2004 22:45

Detentions and lines at 5 years old seems so wrong IMO. Surey there are other sanctions they could use?

hercules · 17/09/2004 22:46

I dont even give detentions out in secondary school. I cant seee any value in them whatsoever.

Hulababy · 17/09/2004 22:47

Snap hercules. If nothing else, I don't give them out as I see them as a punishment to myself as well.

unicorn · 17/09/2004 23:14

hmm... makes me wonder now..
Exactly what redress do we as parents actually have when schools are effectively doing what they like?
Another major irk of mine... dd has started with packed lunches this term (and being that oh so keen mum,) I give her lots of bitty foods like nuts, fruit veg etc. Anyway she keeps coming home saying she hasn't had time to eat it !!!!!!
Think I shall have to put my bolshy mum coat on, and "ave a word' !!

OP posts:
hercules · 17/09/2004 23:18

I find a quiet carefully worded chat with a child can work miracles. Detention gives me more work especially as the child doesnt often show anyway. There must be other sanctions.

jampot · 17/09/2004 23:25

i'm sure a lot depends on teh school - dd has before now come home from school having had no drink because I forgot to put her beaker in her bag and so could not have any water from the dispenser - even though they have cups for the children who have dinners!!!

as dd now goes to a diffrent school i have to leave primary school at 3.15 (end of school day) with ds if I am to get to dd's school to pick up. on a friday afternoon there is agood work assembly and quite often teh Head rambles on a bit so I've asked his teacher if he can sit at the end of the line so at 3.15 I can just go - she wasn't happy and said I had to ask the Head!!

Twiglett · 18/09/2004 07:15

message withdrawn

pixiefish · 18/09/2004 07:25

Detention is probably being kept in at lunchtime or breaktime so a loss of a priviledge. i agree with the teacher who wants to do this- maybe if more primaries came down hard in the beginning we wouldn't have the problems we do in secondary. I know it's hard to find the balance so that the kids don't end up hating school but its also important that there are clear boundaries of acceptable behaviour and sanctions. I don't agree with lines for kiddies of that age.
Jampot- you encourage your dd to take longer over eating her lunch so that she doesn't have to take part in a school discipline method- not sure I understand the logic in that... telling her to pick and choose the rules/etc she wants to obey... just because she doesn't like one... avoid it...

SoupDragon · 18/09/2004 07:46

I have boys (1 in Y1, one preschoool) and if they were playing unacceptably roughy and not just "boys' play", I would hope the teacher would stop them. In fact, even if it were just boys' play and it was too rough, I'd want it stopped or toned down. I guess if detension simply meant keeping them in for some of playtime then that's fine although making them stand against a wall for 5 minutes to calm down and watch the other children playing would probably work better. I remember having to do this at junior school for playtime misdemeanors

hmb · 18/09/2004 08:33

I am with you Pixiefish. The loss of a priviledge may well get them to re-think their behaviour. My kids primary does this with great success. It is most definatly not a return to the 50s meanbean. The school has an estabilshed dicipline policy. There are a series of sanctions, starting with a verbal repremand, if the behaviour continues they have their name on the board, if it continies they may lose a break time. This is used in a gentle, and if I may dare say it loving way, and the children are made to realise that there are ways in which they are allowed to behave and ways that they are not.

I would love to think that all children enter school with the rudiments of reasonable behavior in place, but this is not the case. Simply having a quiet chat with a child, while sometimes an excellent method, may not be enough.

During my teaching practice I spent a week in primary. During this time I saw many acts of real, deliberate violence carried out by small children, most of them with no special needs. One incident, a child was queuing up for lunch and, unproviked, spat at and head butted the child in front of him in the queue. I know that it was unprovoked as the child was stading directly in front of me. The injured boy was brused by the attack. Should the school have had a 'quiet word'?

I see children every day in secondary who are essentialy feral. They have no idea how to behave, they swear, spit and fight and see all these things as a normal part of everyday life. their parents seem not to have civilised them in any way at all. When they leave us they often become the probelm for the poilice. How much better if their antiscicial bhaviour could have been tackled at an earlier time and that some simple, non traumatic punishment made them realise that society has rules.

I have a boistrous boy of 5. If he hurts someone in school I will let them sanction him. To give him an 'out' will start him on the path of 'devide and rule'.

Twiglett · 18/09/2004 08:39

message withdrawn

hmb · 18/09/2004 08:55

I wouldn't want to teach them if they did Twiglett!

pixiefish · 18/09/2004 08:57

nor would i.

pixiefish · 18/09/2004 08:59

in fact i'm sure they'd have serious problems staffing it....

jampot · 18/09/2004 09:09

pixiefish - I have taught my children respect for others (all others) from a very very early age and I can assure you I don't generally encourage them to disregard rules or authority. However having spent 7 years lining up for virtually the same couple of children who were wrongdoing clearly doesn't work either. My dd is terrified of getting into trouble at school and where the staff know which 2 children are causing the trouble I'm afraid I don;'t understand the logic in punishing 120 kids for it!! obviously they do all end up lining up togehter just dd and her friends line up for a bit less, along with I might add, the boys causing the problem! Also a couple of staff who have children have excluded their children from doing this on the grounds that they are helping within school.

Now as for my post of 10.34pm - I don;t understand the logic in that! In addition child G was due to attend a playbreak detention with another child he was picking on and child G didn't show. Nothing happened.

Hulababy · 18/09/2004 09:11

I think the whole point with good discipline in schools has to be consistentcy, so each child sees they are being treated in the same way as each other. Indicvidual forms of punishments just can't work in a school environment.

pixiefish · 18/09/2004 09:12

But surely if you disagree with the rule it's up to you to sort it out with the school not encourage your child to do as she wishes. I have to say that as a teacher if I thought a child was deliberately flouting the school rules i.e by NOT conforming to punishments whatever the reason then I would take action- I accept that punishing the majority for the action of the minority seems unfair- personally I wouldn't do it but I would never undemine the school either if that's what they choose to do

pixiefish · 18/09/2004 09:13

i mean 'undermine'

Hulababy · 18/09/2004 09:13

I agree Jampot that group punishments for whole school/class, should not be happening. And I thought that was common educational thoughts now. Certainly we are not supposed to do class punishements, unless it is genuinely a class issue. Even then though I tend to know who hasn't been involved and I will publically let those pupils know that they are exempt, and if keeping a class behind I excuse those pupils at the start.

jampot · 18/09/2004 09:14

the order to the children was "when you have finished your lunch you must come outside and line up" they go in for lunch in 2 sessions.

hmb · 18/09/2004 09:15

Just out of real interest, what do you think the school should have done with the spiting, headbutting six year old? I would be very interested in ideas for dealing with this sort of behaviour.

Hulababy · 18/09/2004 09:16

But I also agree with pixiefish too - asking a child to deliberately flount a school rule, undermines the school. You must discuss siuch situations with the school direct, rather than using your child to do it this way. Otherwise it can only cause priblems, and possible conflict between school and parent too. Sory, but I can't agree with allowing one child to flount a rule publically. If every child did this it would be chaos.

You must speak to the school yourself if you have issues.