is pretest equal to 11+ test level or 11+ is harder?

[boystiredmum]

DS need to sit pretest this year Oct-Nov, I am wondering is pretest equal to 11+ test level or 11+is harder? is online Pretest, especially those on Pretest web resources harder than it should be? the online pretest seems really difficult for age 10. I am confused.

Isn’t a pretest just a mock exam?

I think the mock test should be at the similar level?

It depends on the school they are sitting for. Pre tests for schools like Eton,Winchester, Haberdashers et al are probably harder than standard11+. All depends on the school. Also don’t forget there are many more variables involved: Interviews at indies, catchments for Grammars all play a part in how hard it is to get a place.

It’s not like the 11+ as it’s supposed to reveal innate ability - so it can’t properly be tutored for. It’s computerised and apparently increases in difficulty as you go on.

Impossible to say if it’s easier or harder than the 11+. I daresay some children take both, but I don’t know any of them.

Oliversmumsarmy I assume the OP is talking about the entrance test taken by children (mainly at prep schools) to determine entry to public (senior) schools such as those mentioned by Shimy.

has anyone took Pretestplus mock test of pre-test? is that level right? if so, I guess it is very hard for year6 beginning kids, it maybe Y7 or higher level and to get good results , it is very difficult

how can this ISEB pre-test see the inner ability of kids? verbal and non-verbal are logical and vocabulary , yes, pretty much IQ test, but math will not be the case, if they have not been taught, doesn't; matter how clear they are they will still not know how to do it.

Boystired - The Prestest OP is talking about is not the ISEB test. That is a different test. Some schools do both eg Harrow involves both.

( Shimy, boystiredmum is the OP.)

Ah! Thanks for pointing that out. Same point still stands. ISEB and ‘Pretest’ are two different things, although ISEB can be used solely as a form of pretest whilst other schools such as mentioned above will combine it with the traditional which I think you were alluring to in your OP.

Shimy I don’t understand your post. The ISEB actually set the “pretest”

My child took this last year and we live in a grammar school area - I think they are similar although of course the pretest is supposed to be adaptive

Sorry I am getting confused as well - on BOFA (which I think does pretest) I thought the actual test papers were very hard - it is designed yr 6 and 7.

My son sat for a range of top independents and Grammar schools. He was tutored and I don't buy the 'innate intelligence' argument. All of the well tutored kids (also bright anyway) got places in these top schools. General 11+ NVR and VR tutoring/practise is useful - Speed and accuracy are the key. The only difference was the pre-tests were computer based for some of the independents. The interviews are largely confirmatory.

Forgot to say, as well as general 11+ prep, ds practised on BOFA.

Online Pretest isn’t harder than 11+ but because it’s online based it tends to favour kids who are good at using computers or have good pattern recognition skills. Those same kids may then struggle when they sit a paper exam. Will your child be taking the 11 plus as paper exam or on the computer? Suggest following the same format.

I thought public schools were later at 14 years old not 11years old

My DS did the ISEB pretest last year and got a clutch of good offers. He said the BOFA practice tests were harder than the real thing (particularly the maths which seemed to include yr 8 work by mistake) . I think the pretest plus mocks were about the right level.

I think familiarisation is the key and also getting to grips with timing.

Oliversmumsarmy the pre-test, taken at 10 years old (for the public school I know best,) is exactly that. Applying involves the computerised test, an interview and a report from the current school. Children get the result in yr 6 (pass/fail/waiting list) but continue at their prep school (or possibly their state school) until yr 8. In the summer of yr 8 they take Common Entrance - but it’s highly unlikely that anyone who has a conditional place (having passed the pre-test) will fail CE. They then proceed to their senior school in yr 9.

(You can google any public school and read the whole process on their website.)

Pre-tests are considered more important than CE nowadays. I imagine - particularly at boarding schools - it’s more and more necessary to be able to plan well in advance. It is quite stressful for the 10/11 year olds though.

This is why people who are familiar with the schools in question resent the ridiculous ‘Hooray Henry’ jibe. For the most competitive schools it’s something of a slog for parents and children - who have to be both clever and resilient over several years to ‘get in’ to these schools.

Pre-test can mean a number of things.
The thing that is usually commonly meant is that it is a test sat in Yr6 for offers for places at the start of Yr 9.

The test might be internally set by the school. It might involve VR and NVR on paper or electronically and it might involve writing and maths too. It might be the test set by ISEB which can be electronic or paper based and might be sat in the Prep school or in the senior. It might be the only test sat with offers following, or used to reduce the number of people qualified to sit a later stage exam. It might be used to give conditional offers which then require a certain Common Entrnace mark at 13 (which no-one in practice fails to achieve).

Essentially, pupils are tested at 10/11 these days whether they transfer at 11 or 13. In this sense it is all 11+.

In terms of standards, to be honest it's not the difficulty of the test that is relevant so much as the mark required to get an offer. Many seniors use the ISEB pre test, but the more selective schools which have more and higher quality applicants can require a higher mark before giving offers than the less selective and popular schools. The required mark will vary a little every year.

So, the thing to make sure you are clear on is the format of the exam for any schools your child will sit. Some independents use CEM and some GL. Some use paper format and others electronic. Smoke test VR and NVR or just one of those and some require a story and a comprehension and some a maths paper. You need to contact the schools themselves and clarify the requirements and MN cannot give accurate or up to date info on every individual school - it is vital to prep for the schools you will sit. It is also useful to have a sense of which are 'easier' or 'harder' in terms of standard required in the exam and any people advocate having an aspirational school and a more definite one.

In terms of difficulty compared to the state school 11+, again it will be the standard to get an offer rather than just the papers themselves that differ. Wholly selctice counties such a s Bucks which take 1/3 of cohort will require a lower standard for a pass mark. The superselective state Grammars which admit purely on score and can have over 2000 applicants for just over 100 places are probably harder to get admission to than pretty much all independent schools, because the sheer numbers mean the standard required to get an offer is just so high. Every year, some people get offers from top Lomdon schools and miss out on QE boys and HB girls. It can happen the other way too, but seems to less regularly and often those with the most selective state school offers get scholarship offers from top independents too.

Hello @boystiredmum, my DS sat a number of pretests in year 6. I am happy to answer any questions you may have, if you would like to pm me.

Did anyone use sofa online pretests for the practice?

Bofa*

Yep. Bofa are helpful. I felt they were more time pressured that the real ISEB pretest though, so don't let them panic you

@Michaelahpurple

Thanks a bunch!

Hi, pls do you know a good 11 plus tutor? Pls refer if you can thank you.