A Levels v IB

[lilpumpsmum]

DS is in year 10 and it's time we start looking st his options after GCSE.

There are two good colleges/6th forms near us. One offers IB and the other A Level (we are UK based)

I am absolutely clueless as to which is best?
We went to an open Eve to the IB college this week and it all seemed very impressive, but also rather intense. DS is a good student, should get good grades if he manages to stay focussed but he is also a little 'typical ' in his laidback manner.

Does anyone have experience with IB?
Why did you choose the IB route in favour of A level?

I feel so lost!

DS is studying IBDP. He choose this as he wanted to continue with a little French and also enjoyed English, but not enough to choose them at A level. In a way its given him more time to think about what he wants to do next. He also knew himself well enough to realise that the A level time table has many 'study periods' where you are just on your own to study and he enjoys the actual teaching. There is a lot to be said also for the Theory of Knowledge

*chose

I would disagree with the ib being easier. I've had one doing each. The ib is a brilliant exam but bloody hard work. 6 subjects, extended essay, cas theory of knowledge .. you have to really apply yourself to do well. As for a lot of it being assessed course work, that was not our experience. We have found university's favoured if over A levels. DD offers were lower in In points than A levels. The other thing it has going for it is it teaches the kids to be independent learners. They have to study in their own time which sets them up well for uni. DD who did A levels had so much more free time at college even doing 4 A levels. The work load was significantly smaller. The highers in IB are not easier than A levels. Look at the results. See how few get 7's in maths, physics and chemistry compared to A☆ at A level. It's not for everyone I agree but it is well worth considering

My son took the IB and also two AS levels with his igcses so we have some experience of both. I don't think it's helpful to talk about which is more difficult, but certainly the IB is more time consuming than taking three A levels. However, if you add in an EPQ and DofE award then that would also be a demanding couple of years.
IB is ideal for all rounders, but not for those students who want to take maths, chem, bio and physics A levels as this combination would not be possible with the IB -(as far as I am aware)
Re some of the comments made above - standard maths is not the same level as gcse, maths studies may be (no experience of this subject) but not the standard course. my ds took HL maths and tutors standard level and he says it's about AS level.
HL maths is considered difficult : a combination of maths A level and further maths AS. It is certainly harder than A level maths. My ds took AS maths with his gcses (got an A) and found HL maths a big jump. If you look at entry requirements often A level maths needs an A and HL maths a 5, with 7 being the top grade, so two grades below the top, compared to one with the A level. For those who are very talented at maths it is also possible to take HL further maths, but not every school offers this.

Another comment suggested that SL subjects were the same level as gcse, mm, depends on the subject. Ds took SL geography and he would agree that the level was about gcse, but geo was one his favourite subjects and he found it pretty straightforward.
He also took German SL and that was way above gcse standard. English SL also required more sophisticated responses than gcse.

Re content am not sure, but imagine the HL cannot cover everything the A level covers given that IB has so many other subjects. Several from his cohort applied to (and gained places at ) imperial and LSE and to study medicine and the IB didn't seem to stop them receiving offers.
for Ds I can't really comment about content as he took HL chemistry, bio and maths and is now at warwick studying Accounting and finance so his HL subjects (with the exception of maths) have little to do with his degree modules. Many of his cohort have A level or HL business/law/economics so he was behind them at the beginning of the year in terms of knowledge, but soon caught up and so any gaps in knowledge due to differences between A level and IB HL should not really be an issue for a reasonably bright student.
Ime universities seem pretty clued up on the IB and ds received 5 offers and no interviews which would be standard for A levels too, I think.

The IB certainly requires excellent time management skills which is good preparation for university.

My response has become quite an essay, but feel free to message me if you want any more info.

My advice having taught both for a number of years is that it depends on your child and what they want to study. Anyone studying IB and intending to do medicine or engineering at a UK university may get in to university with high grades but they will not have the breadth of study that those students who have done an A level in Chemistry, Biology, Physics or Maths will have. The standard at HL is the same but they just do not cover as much. Consequently they may first and even second year tough going.

Great to hear the perspective of someone who has taught both. How would you rate them for people not wanting to specialise into something like medicine or engineering?

For students who want to keep their options open they are a great way of making sure they have a wider choice at degree option time.
Make sure you look at the content of the courses carefully- the structure of say History and Economics are very different for A level and IB. English IB is also structured differently in terms of what books/poetry is covered so also a consideration. A level Art at HL is impossibly difficult to get top marks. HL Maths is like further maths. Also because of the structure of IB you cannot study all the sciences (Bio, Chemistry and Physics at the same time). The EPQ is not dissimilar to the Extended project/essay at IB. The Theory of Knowledge is unique I think but the community work is the same as doing service in DofE.
IB results come out earlier- gives you more thinking time if things have not gone well but if you fail one part of the IB then you do not get the diploma (although you can retake the certain unit to pass) whereas A level are stand alone qualifications.

Both will get a good student into a good University. Universities are interested in potential and that does not alter with the exams you sit.

Which is harder partly depends on whether you are an allrounder or not. If you are not, you have to do subjects you would have preferred to drop, which can be very hard indeed. You are also taking more subjects so it probably is a higher workload, plus you have to do things like volunteering.

Things like " It is also preferred by US universities (comparing to A Levels). " are utter tosh. There is no evidence. Eight in DDs school year got places at Harvard and plenty of others got places at other well regarded US Universities (Yale, Princeton, MIT etc), all with A levels or pre-U. A number of other London schools with strong records on US entry offer A levels, and Kings Wimbledon switched from offering IB only to a choice between A levels and IB, which is what Godolphin and Latymer do.

As a rule, scientists and mathematicians are better off with the greater depth offered by A levels (and again where does the assertion that IB maths is "harder" than A levels come from. Different, yes, odder, yes, but not harder, certainly than FM.) Humanities students may well benefit from the breadth offered by IB. Certainly keeping up maths and a language are generally "a good thing".

I suspect that IB is not a good option for a weaker student.

Why are there people on this thread whose children did like 6 A levels? that can’t be normal

Only the super selective universities will possibly query ib

DD1 goes to a superselective grammar which does IB. Girls from there have no trouble getting into top universities.

Finding some of these comments utterly bizarre. Dd1, who did IB,went to a ss grammar. A lot of the kids went on to do medicine, engineering, nat sci at the top unis in the country. She is reading Physics at Oxford. It really didn't do her any harm doing the IB. Yes the course content varies from A level but they're certainly not dumbed down. If that was the case there would be a huge number scoring top marks. There isn't. She also isn't struggling from missing content of A levels courses. I really believe it's what works for your child. DD2 saw how hard her sister worked and went for 4 A levels instead.

@ User10fuckingmillion Their choice and comprehensive. About half a dozen in their year did five or six. She took one in year 11 and one in year 12 as an extra.
No problem getting university offers with IB.

No not normal, but not unusual for students aiming for the most competitive courses. If you look at the average entry points for courses like Cambridge NatSci, it is pretty obvious that most students take more than three, and several will have taken five.

Double maths is not taxing for a talented mathematician, four A levels are quite standard in selected private schools, whilst a number will have a second language.

Mine both took five and, probably because they did not know to complain, managed perfectly well with DD having time for County sports training. I guess it depends on what is considered normal.

@Needmoresleep
and again where does the assertion that IB maths is "harder" than A levels come from. Different, yes, odder, yes, but not harder, certainly than FM.)
I said that HL maths is considered harder than A level maths, not FM. As I mentioned my ds took AS maths with this gcses and then switched to an IB school for sixth form. He found the step up from AS maths to HL maths considerable and certainly much harder than A level. I believe this is one of the reasons why the IB is changing all its maths courses so that HL maths is more closely aligned with A level maths.

FWIW DH did the IB and he wasn't an all arounder. He was strong in Maths and sciences. He got into a good university but could have probably managed Oxbridge if he'd done A levels BUT he credits being stretched with having to stay broad with his success at upper levels of management. Academic success in the short term isn't the end goal. I think you need to look beyond it. Only doing the very narrow thing you're good at doesn't make you the strongest you can be or give you the skills to look across disciplines. I'd push even a les strong kid to do the IB.

I am overseas and most of the British international schools have switched from A-Levels to IBDP. The most common structure now is English curriculum to GCSEs and then final two years IB. There are no issues with graduates from these schools getting into top universities in the UK but obviously they also go to the US, Canada, Australia, etc.

Personally if we stay abroad long enough for DCs to reach secondary I would choose either IB because in the global market, breadth and language ability are more important than being highly specialised in 3 subjects by age 18.

There is no “one size fits all” answer to this. It all depends on the kid, how focused they are at 16 on what they want to do, and how broad their abilities are. My own DS is desperate to drop what he considers the waffle of the essay subjects to focus on maths and science, though I’m still hoping a language A level will be in the mix. Kids of other people I know have been really keen to keep a broad mix whether it’s because they enjoy that or have no idea what they want to do yet. My own experience of teaching uni maths suggested that IB kids were not nearly well enough prepared for study at that level compared to double maths candidates, but I believed some colleagues doing medicine were much more positive about the broader skill set of IB kids. If I was absolutely forced to make a choice then with a bright kid focused on STEM in general I’d suggest four A levels with one in the essay/language/music... zone is an optimum mix of depth and breadth. I’d recommend that over IB or folding in an EPQ but it is based on my own narrower experience of teaching kids uni maths/physics/eng. If someone was aiming for university subject with a hybrid skill set, eg architecture or economics (waffle skills vital!) then IB might be much more sensible, especially if a school focused on A levels timetables things so you cannot mix across
subject types.