Would be interesting to know ratio of kids with extra time in private schools

[namechangetoinvestigate]

Has this ever been discussed? I know a boy at a top private school in Edinburgh who currently has 25% extra time in written exams for slow hand writing. He's a normal academic achieving boy no learning difficulties. The school has advised the parents that they are going to apply for extra time next year for all his exams not just written exams.

It made me wonder, are one of the reasons private schools getting good results because normal academic achieving kids are getting awarded 25% extra time? That's a lot of extra time and a huge advantage.

I know there's a lot of pressure for private schools to get the grades and wondering if this might be a loop hole they take advantage of, are private schools given privilege when applying for extra time? It would be interesting if schools published what percentage of their pupils got extra time in exams.

Worth a discussion.

I agree with the sentiments expressed that private schools have the resources to support more students that fall through the gaps at state schools.
In a state primary we kept pushing for support from the Senco for our bright but struggling son. We were told there were far worse needing their help. He’s now in private secondary and supported for identified issues with processing and writing, and now working in top set for every subject. He has supported sessions to help him learn skills he needs and has been allowed to use a laptop in exams.
Whilst ever he was able to achieve near average for their figures, the state school just weren’t interested in enabling him to achieve his full potential. Their priorities were the ones struggling at the bottom. I’m not saying that’s not the right priority for their limited resources but explains why these problems are picked up more in the private sector.

As a normal student myself once, either you know the answer or you don't , during exams, not about the time...

caspar this was exactly the same situation we found with our DS who has dyslexia. State school had no resources to help him because he was hitting the age related expectations and there were others who weren't and therefore deemed "more worthy" of help. Regardless of the fact my DS wasn't reaching his full potential, for their statistical purposes, they had to bring the others up to average if they could, not stretch those at average who could be doing better. Now he's in private, there is a much better understanding that slower processing speed and spelling difficulties in an otherwise bright child does not mean your kid is thick, or lazy. Which was what we encountered at state primary. Indeed, more often than not these kids have to work damn hard to keep up, often why problems are not diagnosed until exam time as this is the first time kids have the strict time limits put on them to produce work. DS school test all year 7s in their first term, and identify kids needing help even when they passed an entrance exam in the previous year. It seems from some of the contributors to this thread that there is still misunderstanding that bright kids cannot have learning difficulties....😯 Drives me mad. Extra time is making it equal for these kids, it is NOT an advantage, imagine having all the knowledge in an exam, but you cant make your body work fast enough and neatly enough to demonstrate this. Just imagine how that would make you feel.

Queenscake has just echoed my DDs view. She's bright and does really well at school but she is very dyslexic. A few years ago one of the girls complained saying that it was cheating that she had extra time given that she was already at the top of the year group. DDs retort was 'Well, you could be given 3 days extra time and you still wouldn't know the answers'.

On average, private schools have
a) more staff to look at the child as an individual,
b) no qualms about asking parents to fund a private assessment,
c) higher expectations of each child or league tables to maintain, depending on your outlook.

The scandal isn't that private schools can claim extra time for their pupils: rather it's that state schools don't. They don't have enough staff to worry about whether a child is reaching their potential or the funds to pay for an assessment they recommend.

My ds1 was assessed by his Edinburgh private school as having a slow writing speed. He got no extra time but did all his written exams on a laptop with no access to spellcheck- his typing speed was loads faster. I think, as others have said, that this isn't a case of private schools bending rules, more that they are making full use of any help that is available.

I wonder how we could lessen the disadvantage of state school children with slow writing speeds. Let's face it more funding isn't going to happen, so maybe give all children more time.

Or perhaps equality isn't considered important any more and it's just tough luck

How does giving all children extra time help? If all children are given more time then the ones without slow processing or poor motor skills will be able to write a longer / better structured / neater answer using that extra time, so the ones who have got the difficulties will still do worse by comparison.

You’d have to give SO much extra time that there is no time pressure at all so no benefit in being able to process or write faster. (In other words coursework - but that carries all sorts of its own problems).

So it's not a case if "Well, you could be given 3 days extra time and you still wouldn't know the answers" as someone upthread said then?
So is the answer to accept that we only lessen the inequality of those slow writers whose parents have got money?

Have no problem with kids needing extra time and getting it.

But it isn't a level playing field. At my kids prep school there were a few who had diagnoses early on, but it was amazing how many parents paid for private Ed Psych reports in Year 5 - and all of them got extra time for their kids in the exams.

Suspect the local primary school saw a much lower rate of similar diagnoses.

Would be interesting to have some stats rather than just anecdotes but as we're comparing different sectors, there won't be any available?

Some stats here www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/education-38923034

“couldn’t be bothered” can often mean “found it a lot harder than other children and got tired of trying hard and getting nowhere”.

My DD might look as if she can’t be bothered to write neatly, as she can write neatly if she really tries hard. But it’s very hard work for her, much harder than for other children. She has cerebral palsy so has an obvious reason why it’s harder for her, but there are also other less well known conditions, more difficult to diagnose, which make it harder to write.

My DD might look as if she can’t be bothered to write neatly, as she can write neatly if she really tries hard. But it’s very hard work for her, much harder than for other children.

Yup, mine too. She can maintain neat handwriting for 10 minutes if she goes very slowly. Get her writing in a 2 hour exam it gets worse and worse. But typing seems to be a non-starter for her.

I would say that 80% of students in my independent school has access arrangements.

80% ?!

Is this a selective school?
Or a school where parents who are unhappy with state go to because they give better support?

My dyslexic twins with slow processing who are at a state comprehensive don't get any extra time. I asked and was told it's very hated to get it and hardly anyone dies get it so it wasn't worth applying.
I suspect those at private schools have a bit of an advantage in this - teachers with more time to apply to do the tests, rather than a very stressed over worked state school teacher?

For slow writing, they would get a scribe. With an assessment or EHCP.

A lot of students are in independent schools because maintained schools do not meet their needs.

Access arrangements have to be a normal way of working, which basically means that end-of-topic tests (tests every 2-4 weeks) have to provide a reader/scribe/laptop.

This is very difficult if you do not have an army of LSAs.

The latter, teens.

Parents can initiate the EHCP process, which will give 25% extra time (with evidence of normal way of working) without extra paperwork.

My son has just been diagnosed with dyspraxia. He's nearly 19 and just done his A Levels. He could have got extra time on them. Too late now.

He was told he didn't have Dyscalculia at High school and he's been diagnosed with that this year too.

I just hope he gets the grades.

[b]I think private schools are at an advantage, as they have the funds to screen everyone, whereas in the state system there needs to be a very visible issue first. [/b]

No, private schools do not have the funds. They are charities with extremely tight budgets. Assessment cost ps are either phased o to the parents or the local authority. They absolutely do not come from fee income.

You posted about this the other day? Why so interested in a boy that has no connection to you?

It's going to cost me £1,200 to diagnosis my DC to get him 25% extra time, needing two different assessments . NHS in my county would not fund the diagnosis since 2017 they have really cut the funding. I'm glad I've caught it early but demands of an academic prep school highlighted the need, wouldn't normally have been noticed until he is 14/16. Do I wish this could be available to all of course I do.