Nasty bully with stupid mother

[kimi]

I am so mad i could scream!!!!!!
There is a god alfew child in my DS1 class who takes great delight in being a bully.
He picks on everyone boys girls older and younger.
He plays rugby and think that makes him tough, he has to be (not just in my view but in the view of most of the playground mothers ) the worst kind of child.

I have lost count of the times he has had a dig a ds1 (who is a very bright boy and thinks that only thick people hit out as they are too stupid to roselve anything any other way) and this week he gave my ds2 (who is 4) a punch on the head as he went in to reception class.
The teachers, the head the deputy head the kids and all the other mothers know this child is an evil little toerag BUT to his mother he is a saint and she wont have it that her pride and joy is a little s*.
Just before the holidays her son came running out of school and (in front of my dh) kicked 9 bells out of my son before hubby pulled them apart, so i rang her as she is supposed to be a friend of mine and said what had gone on and ask her if we could sort out something to stop it happening again, her take on it was it never happened, so my dh is mad?blind?lying? Her take on it was such bull that i was speachless.
I spoke to two other children and the teacher, the head and my son all of whom gave my the same virsion of events that lead to the kicking, but she still would not have a bar of it.
I have to say that i am so cross as every day since school has gone back her little thug has had ago at ds1 (and everyone else) today i went to speak to the teacher again as my child spoke to her and ask her to stop xxx being so horrible and all he got was no no no i dont want to here it, xxx got 7 smily faces today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
STUPID BLOODY WOMAN
As a parent i do my best to teach my children what is and is not accecptible and if another parent comes to me to say ds1 did something i will sort it out, if a teacher comes to me and says ds1 has done something i will sort it out, so am i the only one out there! Anytime there has been reason to speak to or be spoken to by anouthe parent it has always been something that could be sorted out, so how do i go about this with my (now ex-friend) as i dont want to carry on a friendship with someone who thinks so little of what my child or any other has to say when there is a problem, she is not doing herself any favours as i was one of only a few mums who spoke to her.
We kind of struck up a friendship when our sons started, but i am so fed up with it now i am sick of her blaming the school, the head the senco thekids and evertone and everything but her own child.
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!

kimi I think you should be running to the school though. It is more appropriate if this is taking place on school grounds than trying to sort it out with a mother who isn't present for the incident. For example if my son did happen to attack a child in school there would be absolutely bugger all I could do about it. The only people who could deal with it would be the school- which is why I would expect them to deal with it. As it happens I have a frequent dialogue with the school about this behaviour (pinching in his case)- the last time we had a quick chat was yesterday. I checked that only adults were being pinched (they were- his LSA said she was worried that he might go for another child and I said that it was unlikely), but the people who had been pinched were both keen to point out to me that it was not done aggressively, but rather through frsutration. If he did go for another child I would expect the school to give a mini background to the events to the other parents- but the only people who could actually deal with it would be them.

This is the approach the nursery took over the dreadful couple of weeks- and I didn't get approached by any parents and the pinching/scratching of children stopped within 2 weeks. Strangely enough none of the children seemed wary of him afterwards either- partly because the nursery always gave them a brief explanation as well.

kimi,there was a child at reception and y 1 with my ds that used to hit,pinch,kick,punch and even headbutted my ds,i couldn't believe a 5 year old knew how to headbutt but ds had a black eye and bruised cheekbone,the difference here is that this child's mum made him apologise and she even went to parental classess as she felt so awful about her son's behaviour,i felt sorry for her as she was called by the teacher every single day because of him hurting other children but at least we knew that she was trying her best,your "friend" doesn't seem to wich must be really annoying for you

Interesting story whymummy - I was wondering how much is nature and how much is nurture in a child's behaviour. After all kids develop their own personalities at a young age .. and siblings oftern turn out very differently.

Surely some kids just have a nasty streak in them, despite the parents best efforts?

Sorry to still be ranting but my ds ended up with 9 sticthes in his leg and on returning to school all bandaged up was promptly KICK in said leg by xxx who knew full well what had happened and about the stitches.
DS1 has reacently been told to mind his head (due to something that i dont want to go in to) this child takes great delight in hitting DS1on the head and calling him a wimp because he CANT take part in contact sport (he can play a mean game of chess though)
I am sorry you don't like me hercules but in my mind if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and swims like a duck then its a duck!
And just maybe if so many people did not rant on about sad home lives and under privileged upbrinning and make all the excuses for everything that everyone dose we might have a better world to bring our children up in.

Or he could be frustrated, have mild communication dificulties, have sensory dificulties....There are lots of reasons children hit out. DS1 has been headbutting since the age of 2. Usually walls or floors, but occasionally adults (headbutted me hard enough when I was pregnant with ds2 to turn ds2 anyway). His worst headbutting phase was when he was eating peanuts (no kidding- he was headbutting 20 times a day at least- had permament bruises- all stopped within 2 days of removing the peanuts). There are often many reasons for a young child lashing out (especially a young child and especially if it is lashing out rather than premeditated) not all mean the child is evil.

Hercules, i can see what you're saying, really i can.
Put yourself in kimi's shoes though, you are telling me you would not have a tiny bit of bad feeling toward an 8 year old punching your 4 year old.??

Welcome anarok

and my child doesn;t have a sad home life and is definitely not underpriviledged- and every professional who has assessed him has commented on the good job we (as in dh an I) do with dealing with his behaviours, and him in general and yes I have been told (several times) by professionals that he is "lucky" to have me. Still can't stop the violence completely though, as it comes mainly out of frustration.

Kimi why isn't the school sorting this out? What is their excuse?

I think the behaviour you just described needs sorting and it is the school's responsibility to do so. What does the head have to say for his/her self? Can you take it higher?

surely deliberately kicking a child's bad leg can't be excused as a communication difficulty - at 8 yrs old isn't he old enough to know that's a bad thing to do?

I would be cross, I would speak to the school but I would not say a child who clearly has problems is a shit. There are lots of children who come from great homes who still have problems. They need support as does the family.
Personally I think it is a sad world when a child with problems is called evil.

I dont want to argue with anyone either so perhaps it's better I bow out now.

There are older children than 8 who wouldnt understand that.

Not going to get in to the P.C thing, but there is no nice thing to say about the child or the fact that his mother (who was at the kicking but looked away) wont do a thing about it.
Also the last time i looked i was still living in a free country and can call a little shit a little shit if i wanted to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My son is 5 years old- I doubt very much that by the time he is 8 years old he would understand that kicking someone even hurts them. He certainly doesn't understand that yet. At 5 my son is "old enough" to know that you don't run out into a road if you want to see your next birthday, but he doesn't actually know or understand that- and probably won't for a number of years yet. He's "old enough" to understand that you have to wait in a queue at a supermarket, but that doesn't stop him headbutting the till if we try and do it.

The one time i have seen him attack a group of children was when he was stuck in a slide at a soft play area. The children (his classmates) went to help him out and he attacked - looked like a caged animal. The children werew talking kindly to him and trying to help- but to him- who didn't understrand a word they appeared threatening. As soon as he saw my face he calmed down and came out very quietly and upset.

I'm with hercules on this one. His behaviour does not sound normal. It does not sound as if he does understand the consequences of his actions- we can theorise all sorts of reasons for that- but a mild undiagnosed communication disorder could certainly be one. Likewise any list of otehr conditions. But like hercules I would say it needs to be sorted out with the school bypassing the mother and [perhaps there is more to it than meets the eye.

anorak, the school are doing all they can but without parent backup it is hard.
You know what i have been through with DS1 and school and i have always worked with the school to sort anything out that needed to be.
DS1 has come a long way, and yes some parents i have had to win over and explane things too but i have Never looked away or not tried to sort things out.
I am going to see the head tomorrow and go through it all again, i will no more let my child be bullied then i would let him be a bully.
I have never said he was better/smarter then anyone else, he is as are all children unique.

BTW jimjams, i am taking it that this boy has problems at home and that's it.

Do hope i haven't offeneded you!!!

no no no not offended me at all angeliz. it's just to me his behaviour sounds weird (crap parenting or not) and often children with something mild going on can behave in strange ways. Because of my experiences-0- and more to the point once I have seen friends with high functioning children go through- I tend to prefer to give the benefit of the doubt. For example a relation of my best friend has a 4 year old who is dificult. He has bitten for years and still does, but I have spoken to his mum at some length- and have watched her dealing with him. She is doing everything correctly and has been trying to get help and assessment for her son for years. Personally I suspect he may be AS, or have SID, or maybe a mild language difficulty- but depite a good mum, he is not beiung picked up by the system and she goes through phases when she feels she can't go out with him. She's trying to arrnage support for him for when he starts school, but without a dx he won't get it. I think the family are lining up for a hard time.

I can assure you all that this boy is NOT special needs and has no learning problems.
I have a strong net work of friends who have special need childern, and when one of them bit DS2 and made him bleed i did not call him a little shit as i know the reasons, and his poor mother (who is on her own with 2 special needs children) was beside herself. I am not mean or unfeeling and i know there are alot of special need kids at the school and they get alot of help.(i am a helper there myself)
I have been hit, bitten and spat at but not one of these children would fall in to the little shit department. This boy is just nasty and there is no reason for it , He speaks to his mother like he just scraped her off his shoe and thinks he is above the rules set for everyone else.
My dh has banned him from our home. I am not having a go at anyone with a real special need, god ive got the t-shirt, nut this is just a nasty child who will grow up to be a nasty adult. There is not more to this then meets the eye, but as most of the parents at the school seem to work together with the school to sort any problems out phoning another parent ( especially one ment to be a friend) is common place!

kimi, let us know how you get on tomorrow with the head.

I certainly understand what you're going through Kimi. My son was in reception last year and a boy in his class was always hitting him. The school were very good and always told me what had happened before he had to and explained how they were trying to deal with it. They were talking to the mother too and she was trying to deal with her sons behaviour, but to be honest, when I saw them together it became clear where the behaviour stemmed from. She had a clear lack of parenting skills and when I met the boys older brother, he was an older version and acting in the same way even though he was 10. The mother is trying but has her own skills problems and the headmistress of the school is embarassed when she has to talk to me about it because she is aware of that too.

My son has just started year 1 and the boy is now in a separate class, which I was relieved about, but he was still attacking my son and even his older sister and others in the playground.

The way the headmistress handled it in the end was to start a lunchtime and playtime club and this boy goes to that rather than be let loose in the playground, so he can be closely supervised while they are trying to work on his problems.

Its not the boys fault, its his upbringing, and he really just doesn't know how to play, which is sad at age 5. He is often just trying to get in with the other kids and just goes about it all the wrong way. I can understand this boys behaviour and sympathise with him but its hard to take when its your child he's attacking and you do have to remind yourself that this is a child and try not to dislike him. Its actually the mother I felt like shaking and telling to get a grip! All the other mum's at the school were getting fed up with it too.

The playtime club was a good idea by the headmistress and even though he has to be watched carefully there and in the classroom, its been a pretty effective way of solving the playground problems! In my opinion too, it really is up to the school to deal with it as its on their turf. After the first time, I wouldn't have liked to keep approaching the boy's mum as I think it would be too easy for the situation to degenerate into arguments.

I know the boy in my case is probably classed as having special needs but in your case its the other children's needs the headmistress needs to take care of too. Removing him from the playground in the same way would protect the other children. I realise it needs resources - someone has to be there to do it at lunchtime, but it really is the school's responsibility to do something, and provide the resources.

I had a friend with a similar problem. I know this sounds extreme, but she finally had had enough of it and told the school that if they did not put a stop to it that she would file charges against the boy for assault. If you think about it, why should it be any different than having a co-worker hit you at work? Anyway, the problem was resolved forthwith!

Message withdrawn

It's a really sad fact that a lot of parents won't hear a bad word spoken against their beloved dd/ds. We have a few at our school, and oddly enough, it's the worst-behaved kids that have the parents who react this way -ie "my child is always getting picked on etc, it's not his fault".
Anorak has spoken a great deal of sense.
You have to keep plugging away at the head/teachers/dinner supervisors etc and make sue this child is watched (And yes I would call him a little shit - sorry! - even if made so by his parents). DON'T tell the child off - you'll have the mum down on you like a ton of bricks!
My kids are a bit older than yours and I've seen a fair amount going on - sometimes "rough play" is just a way of communicating, esp with boys, but can be taken too much to extreme. Perhaps that is this boy's way of "communicating" as he doesn't know any better. Any school worth it's salt should deal with this, and he shouldn't be allowed to play in that fashion.
Good luck.