Waldorf Steiner system - anyone heard about it?

[SonyaSingapore]

I have just started the scary process of looking at local preschools/nurseries for my nearly 3 yr old son (I live in Singapore) - one recommended place is run on the 'Waldorf Steiner' system which I had never heard of before but sounds like it might be good (they say they're the feminine equivalent of the Montessori system which they say is masculine) - does this exist in England and can anyone tell me more from personal experience???

Thanks!

Rudolf Steiner schools are worldwide - Steiner was an Austrian who also developed the system biodynamics (organics)

here is some stuff about the ethos etc about it.

Got one round the corner. They don't like straight lines and all the windows and the roof etc are curved! I looked at Steiner as a possibility for my DS with autism to get some m/s experience but couldn't penetrate quite what they think and what it means practically (not that I tried that hard). The premises of the Steiner nursery round the corner are HORRID! so I didn't consider it.

I have a friend in Hamburg, Germany that went to a RS school and also to a RS church. The whole family were/are very much into it as a way of life it is a very calm, natural way to learn or it was when I visited her when we were at high school age. Strong on art and music although her brother was living/working in Russia at the time with computers. I did never understand the eurhythmics although she tried to show me. She went on to a regular Uni and is now a teacher in a RS school.

HTH

We have one local to us in Switzerland and it is quite popular. As far as I can gather it it to do with learning at the development pace of the child. There is little formal learning or structure until around the age of 7 - when they start to lose their teeth ! - and much of the learning is through practical tasks and experimentation. They also have very limited days so they are relatively old before they go full day, everyday but that is more in keeping with the Swiss system anyway and may not be generally true. Here also the fees are scaled according to income but that may be specific to that school.

No idea what their comparison to Montessori means though.

I like the Stenier system. Would consider sending ds2 (would be keen tbh) but logistically impossible. (ds1 is autistic so we are tied to his school). The schools are all very different in feel though, so like anything worth checking out individually!

BTW my main experience with Steiner was at a parent and toddler group- I took ds1 at a very difficult time for us- and they were wonderfully welcoming and accepting of him - at a time when many places were not. They helped me at a very difficult time.

I am fascinated byt he teeth link!

I do remember that all the toys were very natural-wood-looking iyswim, no primary coloured plastic!

davros at the toddler group I wnet to there were lots of pine cones and lumps of wood rather than toys. There was also one car that all the boys used to fight over

A good book about early years steiner education is "free to Learn"

We went to one in London, and my only advice to you is if you have any strong feelings about your child being exposed to the Christian Religion, be warned that they are not always up front about how much it is a part of the school. We felt very unwelcome in the school because we were not totally into the philosphy(no TV at all All organic food,) My daughter really wanted to read and write and it was totally discouraged. I would not consider it again.

Ah yes, pine cones. Its all coming back to me now, think I must have wished the toys into my memory!

i went to a playgroup and it was a bit cultish. About half way through there was alot of reedy singing and just general up tightedness (if that's a word). There was quite a noisy little girl who got stared at and tutted at. I found the people who ran it a bit tight lipped; I could go on..and be a bit contentious.
It didn't suit me, the group I went to just seemd very judgemental.
I have a friend who works in a steiner workshop/garden and he thinks it is great. They work with young people with challenging behaviour and he loves it.

I have experience of working near a Steiner school which a number of my colleagues had attended. I have to say that, IME, the education did not seem to equip them with with the paper qualifications that they needed to enter the careers that interested them. As it was an environment where professional qualifications were very important, this meant that they were restricted to working in less challenging posts despite being capable of far more. However, I appreciate this may not be the case for everyone.

I think, as with Montessori, Steiner schools really differ from each other a lot. As Jimjams says, really worth checking out the individual school. From what I've picked up, some of Steiner's beliefs were a little kooky (e.g he believed that fairies really existed)and unless you are comfortable with that, it may not work. Having said that, it really depends on how closely the school follows his philosophy. I have heard of schools where children are excluded because they don't see fairies.... but I think that is extreme. As far as I know many of the schools are just a bit alternative and allow children to have an education that isn't obsessed with academic results (perfect IMO!)

My dh's younger brother and sister both went/go to a Steiner school in Canterbury and I have to say they are both lovely young adults. If they are the product of the Steiner system, then I would definitely recommend it. They are confident without being cocky, polite, and above all enthusiastic about life. You get the impression that they haven't been 'quoshed' in any way.

I think it massively depends on the school, what kind of education you want for your child and most importantly, the child. If your child is highly academic for e.g then it may not be the right system (exam results are not always the highest but that's because they put less emphasis on them). However if they are more creative then it could be perfect. I guess that is what they mean by being 'feminine'.

HTH

Have had lots of contact with Steiner system. one family I know:

Grandad instrumental in "importing" Steiner schools etc. to the U.K. Highly regarded in educational circles.

Dad-very famous management professor, has honorary position at Harvard Business School, drives very flashy cars given as part of his fee for consulting work with Mercedes, Audi etc.

Son: New Labour assistant spin-doctor type.

So, not everyone runs the local health food shop and wears stripey hand-knits forever more. The family were into the whole steiner philosphy, medicine, diet etc. Nevertheless they acknowledged that in the "real world" kids need qualifications and our local school taught kids for 4 G.C.S.Es (most got As) and the local Sixth form College took them on where they'd do a 5th G.C.S.E. in their first year of A-level study.

All fees are based on "ability to pay", teachers' wages etc. are very low. My friend's step-mum taught kindergarten at local steiner but left because she found it a bit "Maoist". Lots of meetings where you had to listen to colleagues tear your character to shreds to allow 2personal growth".

I was reading a lotof the old threads about Montessori, because we have a local nursery, plus there was a Steiner playgroup where I used to live... I struggled to get my brain around it, too.

It seems like both philosophies try to treat the children as individuals, expected to learn at their own pace, and not as part of a group experience of learning. In Montessori they focus on academic-type skills, using individual not group teaching exercises. In Steiner, it's all exploration, lateral thinking stuff.

Montessori gets criticised for being too strict, too structured, too much expected in terms of individual self-motivation. Steiner gets criticised for the opposite for being too unstructured, & children not being taught discipline or group dynamics. The mum+Tots group boasted about parents being surprised at their child cooperating at tidying up if the tidying up song was sung WTF? Thought DH and I. Most children will tidy up if it's what the rest of the group is doing, most children like doing what they see their peers doing. Children, esp. age 3+, really like rules and structure -- they like thinking that they understand how things 'should' be. It's nothing to do with the special song!

I think you have to visit both of the local facilities to see which you could imagine your child being happiest in. I would chooose neither though. Steiner esp. is way too hokey for me, but ours is a household of engineer/scientist/statistician types.

Have read a bit about it, but haven't visited a school. The only people that we know who have a child in one are of the "don't place any restrictions on my child, it may stagnate his creativity type." Consequently, the child is completely undisciplined and a bit aggressive with other children. We have tended to go the opposite direction whenever we hear of something that this couple does with their children IYKWIM!

Steiner is structured- the idea of a daily rhythm ( ie routine) is very central to Steiner philosophy. They expect a lot of self-discipline from the children as well- they are expected to behave appropriately. However it depends a lot on individual schools. I know a number of parents with children with AS who have found Steiner schools ideal for their child- as they have provided structure, and more tolerance amongst peers and therefore less bullying. For some children with AS it has provided a school system that they can cope with. I know others who have found the system didn't work for their AS children- so once again may come down to individual schools.

Our local school publishes a list of things ex students have done. They've done a wide range of things including go to Oxbridge, become doctors, acountants as well as more arty creative type stuff.

haven't read in deatil all the posts, but from my own experience - my DM runs a montessori school. very very successful, and not at all strict. however, like all schools, they are individual and can differ.
the children are very well taught in all areas, including a foreign language, art cooking etc (these are 2.5 - 5 year olds), and she has a very good reputation for speical needs. she has had quite a few autist spectrum children.
most children go on to private prep schools, but quite a few go to the local reception class, and they are always way ahead of all others. however, DM's school is not a 'hothouse', she just has a routine and a high ratio of teachers to children. 3:1 I think. she won't let them start before they are ready, and positvily discouages 'pushy' parents. all play is work. any how, this probably doesn't help - but this is my experience. good luck - just make sure you visit the school, and talk to other parents who kids already go.

thanks to all of you - all very helpful - I knew nothing about it until last week! I love the sound of the pile of pine cones and all the boys fighting over the one (non plastic!) car....... it sounds like a lot of it could be wonderful and really positive if done in the right way by the right people - anyway I am going to try out their playgroup with mums too and will take it from there...... I am a complete novice and find the whole idea of choosing the right place for my little boy pretty daunting!