Prep school scrapping Common Entrance - views on this please?

[MGMidget]

DS's prep school plan to phase out Common Entrance and replace it with their own assessments. I am wondering what people think about this? I am worried the destination senior schools may be sceptical and that this is a bit of an ego trip for the prep school (i.e. wanting to boost their own 'brand' with their own 'diploma')!

Is anyone else's prep school thinking of doing this?

Anyone in private senior schools involved in admissions have a view on this?

I know Common Entrance gets its fair share of criticism but at least there was a standard syllabus so the senior schools had some sort of benchmark to compare pupils. My son's prep plans to mark their pupils assessments/exams so it doesn't appear (at this stage) there would be any external scrutiny of standards achieved.

CE is effectively obsolete.

Most 13 + senior schools do pretests at 11 - and it is then VERY unusual for a child not to get in at 13. CE is just a way of giving children something to do for two years

Most senior boarding schools already offer a non CE route for the ever increasing number of children joining from outside the UK prep sector. This demographic will increase as UK parents are priced out of the market.

CE is an awful, old fashioned exam which has not changed much over the last 40 years and does not test the skills needed in today’s world.

I would be delighted to see the back of it!

With the exception of a very small handful of big name schools, entry to UK boarding schools is not competitive. They are just looking for students who will get decent GCSE results and hopefully bring something else to the school.

I'm not familiar with the CE syllabus at the moment (apart from having a quick look on the ISEB website at some of the syllabus content. It didn't look 'old fashioned' from a first glance although I have heard criticism about it (e.g. lots of rote learning/memorising needed, loads of exams in quick succession over a few days making it very intense).

Are GCSE's much different though? Again haven't got that far yet to know the syllabus and its a long time since I was at school (when I did O levels, there were no GCSEs!).

DS's school seems to have really taken its foot off the pedal academically since 11+ and pre-test exams in January (year 6) so I am starting to wonder what they are going to do with the kids for the next two years if there's no externally assessed exams to do! My DS has barely had any homework for months and they seem to be doing loads of drama and non academic stuff at school. All good life skills but I am starting to wonder if DS would have been better off going to a senior school at 11 as regards getting his academic standards up to standard in preparation for GCSEs!

I take the point though that many senior schools don't care about Common Entrance any more. Many do, however, seem to use it for setting purposes or for assessing academic scholarship candidates (if they don't have their own academic scholarship exam).

Is it just a bit more relaxed as it's the last few weeks before many of the children move to senior schools?

And perhaps those own exams are to give the pupils something to work towards instead of CE? I'd see how year 7 starts and only then would I be on the case if it still seems overly relaxed a few weeks in.

I can't see how a prep school can unilaterally take the decision to scrap the CE. CEE are so a senior school knows whether a child has met their standard. It has nothing to do with what the prep school wants. Prep schools can of course choose not to prepare their pupils for the CE as state schools have done but they'll find their pupils shut out of the system. It would be like a secondary school choosing to not prepare their pupils for GCSE or A Levels. For girls and those moving at 11, it wouldn't be a problem as many girls schools and 11+ schools now have their own entrance exams also. As your DS needs to get into the 13+ schools he would need to be prepared for it. Surely all the children have conditional 13+ offers that the prep can't ignore. It would be a breach of contract if they don't prepare them properly. Perhaps their laa-di-daaing this term is just to give them a break from the full-on academics associated with Year 6 exam preparations. They'll probably be back on task in September.
For those saying the CE is obsolete, senior schools are still making offers conditional on the CE. CE will only disappear with 13+ schools or when they can all agree on what will replace it. CEE are like every school exam. Many are unhappy with them but there is no agreement on what should replace them.

The Prep School Bacc has already been adopted by a number of prep and senior schools.
www.independentschoolparent.com/school/prep-school-baccalaureate-vs-the-common-entrance-exam/
Other schools eg Beacon School have introduced their own tests.
This has not adversely impacted their students transfer to senior schools.

I have seen no evidence of prep schools adopting the prep school bacc but then again I only have 2 DC. My son is in a through school via the 7+ and of the schools my DD is considering, it's CE or the school's own exam with a pre-test and interview. Many senior schools are supportive of the change because of the tendency to teach to the test but until there's solid evidence of benefit, the PSB won't gain traction. And even when it does, it won't be a replacement but an alternative.

It's up to the secondary schools which exams they require. The prep should be ready to prep its pupils for whatever exit exams their first choice schools require

If the result of the pre-test is an offer conditional on CE, and the prep will not prepare for that or indeed even let the candidate sit it there (if that is what is meant by phasing it out) then you really need to find another school sharpish

Our prep has scrapped CE for all Humanities subjects as it was too rigid and old fashioned. Now the students earn a school diploma instead.

Prep has assured parents that all senior schools including the top public schools are completely on board with this as CE has become largely obsolete.

The Senior schools have either scrapped the need for it or really just don’t seem to care!

I sent off the papers last week to one school and they didn’t even bother marking one subject!

Ds prep school keep talking about ending it but haven't so far - I wish they would its an outdated waste of time as far as I'm concerned. Anyway we've decided we are moving ds out after year 6 as we don't want him studying for CE. He's going to an independent day school from year 7 who set their own admission exam - which is more about gauging where the child is at.

Ds’s school scrapped CE for everything except maths, English and science 2 years ago. It’s been brilliant; no more rote learning or endless practice papers in y7 and y8 and instead they stretch and engage the kids as a senior school starting at 11 would. So many senior schools we have visited have said they embrace the change because historically they spent y9 re-energising children who had been completely turned off by the less exciting aspects of CE. Now they know the necessary standards in the core subjects are reached, but they will get kids with better analytical skills, better discussion skills and the other “softer” stuff the school can afford to spend more time on.
If a senior school requires, for example, CE French, then the school will prep for it specifically with that child, but as far as I’m aware Eton is the only school which has insisted, and only for French.

I am amazed at the level of misinformation on this trend!
Prep schools cannot decide to scrap CEEs, but most senior schools have now decided to scrap the CEE for entrance at 13+. Instead, they are now offering new ways of assessment well before Year 8, which includes a bigger focus on interviews/assessments and reasoning type tests. This is a result of several years of campaigning from prep schools to scrap the old fashioned CEE rote-type learning model which is no longer relevant. I suspect your prep school was one of the London prep schools who worked with the senior schools on this.

Every senior school has a different entry assessment model (and different timings of removing the CEE) and you should research and find out from your prospective schools about these changes. If your child is Y4 or below, it's likely they won't be doing the CEE at all (but please do talk to the senior schools).

I agree that CE is on it's way out.

This is because the syllabus itself is very old fashioned in terms of being so content heavy and involving lots of rote learning, in a time where teaching is less based on this now. It is also because both schools and parents want earlier certainty about school places.

Even schools which still nominally use CE tend to pre-test in Y6 now and offer places then - these tests are often ISEB multiple choice which are a version of an IQ test and a bit like the multiple choice exams sat for 11+ but can also involve reading comprehension, creatives writing and maths. Schools either offer purely based on these tests in Yr6 or offer based on them and add a CE requirement which candidates never fail to achieve. CE essentially then becomes a way of keeping yr 7 and 8s motivated after they have received their offers. Some schools also offer a purely Yr8 test (again an internal test) and CE requirement or offer both a Yr6 pre test and Yr8 test option, to help the Prep schools cope with change......often boys schools in particular historically thought some boys in Yr6 weren't mature enough to do their best in tests in Yr6 and would do better if tested in Yr8 (at least that's what was said....but perhaps it was partly to ensure those boys remained until yr8)

Either way fewer schools do CE each year and fewer Senior schools require it. Prep schools can only decide to abandon it if the Seniors they feed are happy not to have it, or the Seniors themselves drive the move away from it. St Pauls and Westminster both announced they would no longer use CE so there is momentum in this direction from the big names too.

It's a hard one for Prep schools that go to 13. Teaching CE was a bit of a burden, but was a way they made themselves distinctive. Now they don't do that, and especially if kids have their offers mid-Yr6 it could be quite hard to keep them focused.

I think it's all part of the trend to move away from 13+ entry too. Although a number of boarding schools only offer 13+ entry so take in from 13+ Preps, more and more senior schools take all or an increasing bulk of their entry at 11+. It secures 7 years of fees for them and greater certainty of who is coming. Prep schools which feed both 11+ and 13+ schools can find their numbers in Yr7 and 8 dwindle, as parents often opt for the cheaper and highly successful day schools which are predominantly taking in at 11. Many parents are wary of waiting for true 13+ entry in Yr8 and knowing that most schools now test in Yr6, decide the children might as well move in Yr7 not Yr9. So whilst I'm sure some 13+ Prep schools will keep going to feed the smallish number of 13+ only entry schools, the trend will be that more Prep schools abandon their Yr7 and 8 as they become less viable due to smaller numbers, especially those that predominantly send their children to day schools.

Interesting changes, driven I think by the fact boarding fees become increasingly out of reach, schools compete with each other to attract the day market in at Yr7 for more years of fees, and parents wanting certainty sooner,in what often feels a highly competitive market.

Yes it is definitely a period of transition. I'm not sure 13 is going to go altogether as an entry point but I think almost all of the schools will move to pre-testing in yr 6. That way they get to compete for a wider pool of boys than they do now (with the brightest being snapped up early by the very academic schools who've been testing at that point) and parents get certainty earlier which relieves some of the danger to preps of them leaving at 11.

Dulwich and Whitgift are moving to this system from this year but at the same time slightly increasing number of places at 13.

That does leave CE pretty pointless for kids heading off to day schools.

Junior/Prep Schools can just dictate that they won’t do CE, many have done so and more and more are doing so. If a school really wont accept it then we prep for that with that one child, just like we do for academic scholarships which are totally different from school to school.

The Senior schools just don’t seem to care, my head and I were analysing our results today at school, one school couldn’t be bothered to give different grades for French and Spanish. Another two couldn’t be bothered to mark the RS papers. Others don’t meet the timescales for reporting results either.

Usually when schools are moving away from CE, Preps and Senior schools speak to each other and make decisions together. Preps and Senior schools rely on good relationships between each other - Preps can sell the positive relationship and good admissions/scholarship rates to parents, plus Seniors need Preps to send them students and value Preps which consistently send good students.

When there is a change to admissions processes, it can be worrying for parents, so if it can be sold to parents as something that Preps and Senior schools have worked on and agreed together, it really helps.

We were involved with a Prep that wanted to stop CE and develop a new curriculum. They approached all the Seniors they fed into, knowing all their Seniors already had their own tests (mostly pre-tests in yr6) that they based offers on in reality, and asked for their views. The Seniors were happy to not bother with CE because in reality it just provided marking work for their staff, for students who had already secured firm offers of places 18 months before. The Prep schools asked the Seniors for help in developing the new curriculum that they would offer Yr7 and 8 so they could make it and present it to parents as something which would genuinely equip the students better for life in Yr9 than CE had.....and so everyone was happy and felt involved.

On one level this is evidence of Prep schools adjusting to change and securing their survival to 13 - removing the CE pressures and introducing a curriculum probably better for GCSE preparation. However, longer term, I also think it's part of the trend of now and the future to move away from Preps going to 13, in all but a few cases. Most Senior day schools take the majority now at 11 and with boarding fees putting many parents off, day schools or day places are an increasing share of the market. With pre-testing and without CE I think more and more children will move at 11 and 13 will become the preserve in most cases of a small number of boarding schools. Already, lots of Preps have closed their yr7 and 8s and finish at 11, as the critical mass to make those year groups viable and attractive to parents is lost. More will go the same way unless they are perhaps boarding Preps and/or those focused on sending the majority to boarding schools which start at 13. In the end I think the Senior schools call the shots and will determine this, not the Preps themselves, especially in London where there is so much competition for day school places and the Seniors increasingly don't feel the need to keep in with 13+ Preps by offering the traditional 13+ route, but fill more and more places at 11 or even at 13 via pre-tests, which then often make parents decide they might as well just leave at 11 anyway and start the new school when the vast majority are, rather than being a minority incomer at 13, who has seen all their friends leave 2 years before and move on, whilst they knew where they would go and had secured their place, but spent another 2 years waiting to actually go.