Do you agree with prayers in school?

[scotlou]

My ds recently started primary 1 in our local primary school. It's a great school - 35 kids in total - 2 teachers and only 5 kids in P1 so we were more than happy to send him.
When we visited last year we told the head that we do not believe that religious observance should form part of school life (my dh and I do hold certain beliefs but think that religion should be part of home life and not school). She explained that in Scotland (don't know about rest of UK) it is a statutory requirement for schools to have a daily religious observance and that this school said a prayer every morning. She said though that the kids were not compelled to take part and could sit quietly during that time instead.
We do not want to make our child different so do not want to exclude him during this part of the day. Of course, now he has started school he has told us how he "prays" every morning - and does not want to stop taking part! I don't want to make a big deal of it - spoke to the head again who was very understanding and said my ds could help with dinner money or something during that time - but I really don't want him to feel or look different. Does anyone else have this problem?

Scotlou - in the same position as you (small school in Scotland). Having come from inner city England I was very surprised to find that it really was an act of CHRISTIAN worship that went on every day, rather than a general discussion about morals, etc. DH was particularly annoyed by the news that in P1 DS joined in a prayer in the morning to ask God to make sure all the children behaved well that day!!
However, we too, having discussed it with the teacher, decided that we didn't want DS isolated by being made different. He was instructed to just stand quietly while the others were having prayers and we have discussed religions of the world with him at home. In fact, he probably knows more about Christianity than anyone else in his class since DH lectures in canon law and therefore dinner-table conversation can be a bit obtruse at times!!
One of the main problems we have encountered, possibly because DH and DS have had many conversations about why DH is an atheist is that DS then went back to school and repeated this as the 'real' truth. Have had to many more conversations about allowing everyone to believe what they want and not upsetting people/starting a religious war. Now he is in P6 the interest has waned.

Lavender1, it really doesn't take a huge leap of imagination, surely, to understand that for those people who think religion is false and either a/akin to crystal healing or astrology or b/a malign influence on the world, or even c/of a totally different religion, might not be comfortable with their small children being taught that Christianity is true.

I havent read all of the thread, just the first post but the religious part of my schooling, the prayers and the singing of bizarre songs i was never sure of the words, and my experience of brownies and sunday school...overly nice scary strangers gave me a deep distust of religion as I just couldnt fathom it, still cant now. Hoping the same happens to my dds at a C.O.E school!

Lavender1, it really doesn't take a huge leap of imagination, surely, to understand that for those people who think religion is false and either a/akin to crystal healing or astrology or b/a malign influence on the world, or even c/of a totally different religion, might not be comfortable with their small children being taught that Christianity is true.

I was at a meeting at church last month on the topic of praying with children and (god I hope none of them are mumsnetters because they will flip when reading this) although there were some sensible suggestions and contributions there was also a lot of quite disturbing stuff going on. One man said that every child needed to reflect on his sin and its consequences and then went on a rant about the problem with youths today is that they have no concept of hell! another mother who was a widow and still clearly grieving said that she took her young children to their fathers grave where they would lie and pray for hours at a time or sing hymns. when someone asked me what I prayed for with dd I flippantly replied i pray that she goes to sleep so I can relax in front of corrie with a bottle of wine. they looked at me as if I was born of the devil!

And then we wonder why many people think we are bonkers?

LOL, Nikkim! And here am I, atheist (tho methodist upbringing), staunch disestablishmentarianist, having taken a youth group to sing in a very very prominent cathedral on Sunday. The Dean made it very clear that they welcomed those with no faith or alternative faith, and made a wholly moral and supportable sermon about practical support agianst racism and xenophobia, which had me thinking what a sensible institution the church is!

This has reminded me that my (continued !) act of rebellion is that whenever someone says "let us pray" - I keep my eyes open and my head up and look around at everyone.

I did go through one stage of "if I keep my eyes shut for enough sets prayers, maybe I will feel this thing that people call God" (I must have been about 8 or 9 - but eventually I stopped bothering.

If I am in a church for whatever reason (eg a wedding or christening) I will show a wee bit more respoect - ie will drop my head, but still don't shut my eyes.

Ah Blu, I wish I did believe that the Church or religion in general was a force for good in the world. While I totally accept that there are many religious people who think like Nikkim or your dean, I think that historically and around the world, religion is much more often a force for division, bigotry, hatred and fear. All of which is supported by the Bible. the Klu Kluz Klan is a very religious organisation

Klux!

Lavender1 - It's just the Lord's prayer in the morning and Grace at lunch - but that's not the point. I do not believe school is the place for Religious Observance (different to Religious Education - which I take as learning about ALL religions). As said before, I do still have Christian beliefs that are important to me - and I actually feel it is more wrong for someone to go through the motions of saying words they do not understand than saying nothing - or having a moment of quiet reflection. I do not want ds to feel "different" - and it will be very noticeable in a school with 35 children in total - if he is withdrawn from this part of the day. Having said all that, I want to emphasise that the head teacher is very supportive and fully understands our position - it's just that at present I Scotland the system (in my opinion) is wrong.

Which is why I do not want my son to pray in school. Of course I support the right of other people to worship as they choose, just not to make it compulsory for everyone in what I think is an inappropriate place.

Aloha - I agree with you. I think that often in this world Religion is a source of division.

Scotlou, As a teacher in Scotland, I've never been in any school that has a daily act of worship. Our RE teaching is about religon- all religons. Telling the children about the beliefs, the buildings, celebrations etc. My head's husband is a minister, and our school does everything by the book. Don't have any documents at home to check things exactly, but there is a prportion of time allocated to RE weekly , and I think it's about 1 1/2 hours.

My dd is also at a very small school in Scotland (29 pupils) and afaik, they only bother have religious worship when the minister comes in - oops! Luckily, he doesn't come very often; when he does, he insists on bringing his wretched banjo and playing it.

I've not read it, but this might be of interest. It is a report on the consultation into religious observance in scools by the Scottish Executive.

It does say that "The advice provided in SOED Circular 6/91 was that secondary schools should provide at least monthly opportunities for participation in religious observance; and that primary schools at least weekly opportunities. " - which would suggest that it doesn't NEED to be daily!

schools even

Very reassured by that paper Prettybird - thanks for the post - good to see that the issue has been recognised and investigated, although from a quick glance it doesn't seem like much will change in the short term.

Muddaofsuburbia - I seem to remember some controversy when this came out. As you know, religious divides run deep in Scotland (or maybe I am just more concsious of it, being a West Coaster - and having been "blind" to it until well into adulthood) - so there are always sensitvities. Not helped by the fact that Catholic schools are a more integral part of the state system than in England - and they want to retain all the "rights" that they have to "teach" catholicism and catholic values.

But that's as nothing compared to the religious fight that is currently brewing on sex education!

Prettybird - just got round to reading this now. I can see I'll need to have another chat with the head...! I don't want to be seen as an intefering parent but imo if you don't get involved in things you can't hope to change anything (or complain when things aren't done your way!)
Thanks everyone.