Homework madness

[emkana]

I read today that for 11 year olds the recommendations are that they should do between 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 hours of homework a day. So if school finishes at half past three, then they go home, have something to eat, then do homework - they're finished at six. Isn't that complete and utter madness? When are our children supposed to have a life outside school?
It's still a long way off for my dd's, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to support such recommendations - even though I used to be a secondary school teacher myself.

my dd gets about 1.5 hrs per night ,she's in yr 8.Why do the kids in the top sets get more homework than the lower sets.It seems really unfair ,she's always moaning that some kids she knows get less than she does.She is in the fast track sets but fells she is being punished for being clever.

My dd and ds are too young for school, but I really empathise with kids esp those they're trying to stretch by giving them more work - and not only that often more of the same! I hated HW when I was at school so did all of it in my breaks and over lunch! Got home had my tea went out to see my mates - who never seemed to get homework! Still I was Ok with being uncool - must have been thick skinned or something How things change!

Homework - who needs it? I sympathise with all these poor children doing homework - and all you mums trying to help them do it or having to watch them struggle with it after a tiring school day when all they want to do is unwind. I hated HW as a child and resented my children having to do it. Why should school have to invade the home and eat into precious time spent with one's children? I was interested in the recent proposal to increase school hours. If there really aren't enough hours in the current school day to complete the curriculum, then maybe longer hours at school might be the answer (not too long though) , so long as when the children came home their time was their own, particularly weekends. Most adults aren't expected to take extra work home with them at the end of the day, so why inflict this on children?

So you don't mind the kids having to do the work if the teachers supervise it, you just don't want it as home work?

I have no probelm with the hours being officially longet in school, but I would thn not be prepared to do all the marking /preparation etc every evening when I came home from school. To make this work you would have to take on more staff to supervise. Many of the problems in education stem from underfunding (for example my sixth form students have no books as the school cannot afford them), so I don't think that it is going to happen.

At present my 'official' starts at 8.30 and finishes at 3.30. I then pick my kids up and we do all the normal things (including homework!) till they go to bed. Then I make up the time I have 'missed' IYSWIM, by working for 2-3 hours when my kids go to bed. I also spend sunday morning planning lessons. This is not a moan, I love my job.

But you are suggesting that I should stay in work another two hours? When do I mark, when do I prepare?

HMB, if you were supervising a homework class, couldn't you do your marking and preparing during that time? (That does assume that the kids would actually be doing homework, not pissing about distracting others, of course).

I think they will put money into this because they are so keen on all the adults in the home going out to work, that they'll throw practically any money at it to make it happen. Prolonging the school day is a necessity for that agenda. Not saying I agree with it, just that it's a strong probability.

Talking about homewrokk - my neice - aged 7 - was given a piece of homework asking how the magnets in earphones and speakers work to make sound!!

Can anyone here (who doesn't already have a science degree) can explain that easily - or at least in a way that 7 year old can understand?

This is a classic example of homework which just gets transerred on to the parents (or in this case, her uncle, as her mother didn't kow - and doesn't have access to the Internet).

When I was at work in school before maternity leave, I would often arrive at school at 7.45am and not leave until 6.30 or 7pm. Why? I had so much work to do. Sorry to all those parents who aren't teachers but lengthening the school day is just a form of babysitting and I think it's a terrible idea. Meanbean, with respect, children need to be supervised actively when in the classroom, getting on with your own work is a nice idea but 99% of the time completely impractical. Having said that, I do think schools often set too much homework and the pressure on children can be enormous.

Rowlers, I agree that lengthening the school day is a form of babysitting, and I disagree with it, but the government appears to think that parents going out to work is more important than any other consideration, including children's, teacher's and parent's needs. So I think it will happen anyway, unless there is massive opposition from parents and teachers.

Yep, think you're right. How do I oppose?!?!?!?

I still think homework should be done in school - for all those equal opportunities reasons amoung others - is only appropriate at secondary level and should be given as sparingly as possible and only when necessary, ie not for the sake of it.

As a teacher I also agree that lengthening the school day is not on. I may only teach certain hours but I do have alot of other work I do out of school hours. If I was to supervise children in that time I would NOT be able to get that done. I would have to be responsible for those children - making sure they behave, making sure they are all doing their work, making saure that they understand their work, helping them do it... and they'd be doing different work than each other too. Therefore, no, I wouldn't be able to plan and mark. Besides most of my planning takes place on a computer - not always possible in a non-ICT room at my school.

And what happens to MY child when I am looking after YOURS? How do I get to pick my DD up from school/child care if I can't leave work until later???

I think it is important to remember that schools are not babysitters/child care. It is education. When we all have children we know that they will go to school and that this will be an issue. It should not be a shock to anyone. Sorry - probably sounds dead arsey but...

I do, however, think that school day's will lengthen BUT I don't think it will necessarily come down to teachers to do that care.

I can't see the unions going for it. And it certainly won't happen quickly. It would mean a massive change to pay and conditions in education. There are already a huge shortage in teaching (esp. secondary) and people are leaving the career in droves. Anyhting that would risk that would have to be taken very carefully.

Who will do it?

Maybe some teachers will opt to do it for additional pay the night they stay (we do that for Easter Revision courses)

Newly appointed positions

Parent volunteers

????

It's all going to cost!

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what about the media banging on about kids not getting enough exercise.

my dd would love to do sport every day after school but can't because of all the homework.

also why do the bright kids get more homework than the rest?

I don't approve of lengthening the school day, and if our school starts doing breakfast club or afterschool/homework club my children won't go.

My views on homework are unclear. At present my ds1 (7) needs to spend very little time on the homework set by the teacher, as it's not too demanding, and he finds it quite easy.

BUT he does come home inspired by something they've done at school, and wants to follow it up at home. This week, for example, he has spent about 3 hrs so far making notes, and engrossed in various encylopaedias and other non-fiction books researching spiders, and in particular tarantulas, as he would like one as a pet. [No, he's not!] This has all been sparked off by a project at school on minibeasts. To me this is homework at its best, blurring the boundaries between home and school, between learning and playing, between voluntary and enforced activities. But there are not many children like ds1 [Thank goodness!] and you can't 'set' this sort of homework.

I do think there is room for regular enforced homework to instil discipline and solid working habits and study skills; but I would be very disappointed if at any point in the future ds1 has to spend time on homework that it squeezes out the creative/investigative sort of projects he thrives on.

Yes, but we don't all have children agreeing that they should spend hours over homework when they are still babies of five or six. I strongly disagree with homework at primary level, and I contribute to the funding of education like everyone else.

quick answer to hulababy's questions. I think homwork clubs for primary school children are a very good idea. It is about equal opportunitiens.The clubs should not be manned by exclusively teachers (unless individual teachers want to do this and get paid extra). I agree that a teacher's day is long enough.

How about clubs manned by classroom assistants plus parent volunteers and students? an individual mix according to each school.
At my son's tution class there is not a proper teacher in sight. It is run mostly by sixth form and college students and it works really well. They supervise and help out when needed. I don't think it should be compulsary to go to a homework club, just am option. To pay for it, parents should give something (after all they would pay an afterschool childminder) but not if on a low income - and if the school feels a child needs the club and wants to go, and the parents can but won't pay for it, then there should be provision for the school to put pressure on the parents and/or offer the child a free place. Does that sound workable?

Personally I think too much homework is given right from the beginning. My dd started reception and brought home a reading book from day 1. We are supposed to read with her every day (about 15 mins), which might not sound much, but we both work, so by the time we get home with them it is after 6pm. The childminder has too many kids to expect her to do individual reading. Therefore we only get her reading done a couple of times a week. Now she has moved to year 1, on her first weekend she brought home maths, reading and spellings!! The maths had to be done by the monday, the spelling by this friday and the reading over the weekend. Personally I think it is too much already, but I doubt that woukd go down well with the school!!

Tigermoth - sounbds like a good system.

Mean bean, could I supervise the homework of 30 children and mark at the same time? No! Have you any idea how much work would be done by most of those children unless they were constantly supervised? The answer is none.

How much flack do you think that teacher would catch if the homework was set and then the child didn't do it. Then we would get parents shouting that we were not supervising their children properly!

Just out of interest, meanbean, when were you in school?

I ask because I went in the 70s and can remember being set work in class, getting on with it, while the teacher marked work and went through it with individuals.

I can tell you for a fact that this is impossible in schools today. The standard of behaviour in many classes preculdes it. As does the amount of work and pace of lessons, driven not by the teacher but by the national curriculum.

To have 30 kids in a room doing homework while I marked? Don't make me laugh!

This realy happened to me today. First lesson had a child shout out 'Oh for Fuck sake' when I asked to see his homework (he is 12 btw). I later had to have him removed from the clasroom as he was throwing equipment at other children. Last two lessons I had to physically stand between 3 girls to stop a fight starting. I then had to chase one of them to stop her running out of school, place her with the HOY, place another with the sixth form and kept the last in my class. Do you honesly think I could supervise these and mark work? Because that is what you are asking us to do.

If parents find it hard to get a single child to work, how much harder do you think it would be with a classfull?

And as a last point. I run an informal catch up/homework club every week on a Wedneday lunch time. Would you like to guess how many kids have attended this term, so far? Go on I'll give a prize

If it is anything like the Tuesday lunchtime GCSE catch up sessin I have ran these past two week, I can guess....

.... NONE!!!

Yet, none of these children are up to date with coursework. Even the head have spoken to them and written home to parents, but nope - no progress.

This bad language must be in the air hmb. Yesterday I asked a Y10 lad to stop taking the mouse balls out of my mouse - his reply was "Oh FFS miss, why". Hmmmm!

You are excluded Hulababy from the quiz, as I knew that you had probably done the same

Now , honesly if these kids are so overworked, they could have dropped in, used text books, asked questions. But guess how many did come???

But that's exactly what I mean, hmb -
some students won't do the work, neither in school or afterwards, when left to their own devices.
The conscientious students that do exist will do the work after school, though - but those are the students who would probably fill their afternoons with meaningful and enriching activities anyway. So why not give them the opportunity to do that? Why even more homework for the bright kids?
On the other hand there are some clever/bright kids who won't do any homework ever but will still do brilliantly in exams - I've known several of those, both while teaching and while still being in school myself.
And then there are some who really do need the extra tuition/help/support - but will never do anything extra unless forced to do so.
So where does homework come in?

Well, for me it is an invaluable tool in picking out deep seated misconceptions about science. Students will often answer correctly in class, when the information is frewsh in their minds, however, with the passage of time they return to their own intuative explanations of how the world works, which although wrong, are deep seated. (see the work of Rosalind Driver if you are interested in this sort of thing)

Homework allows me to uncover these continuing misunderstandings, which I will then address a second time at the start of the lesson.

It also allows me to set learning tasks that we simply don't have time to do in the lesson. For example my Y8 children were set the task last Friday of learning the abbreviations and names of the first 20 chemicals in the periodic table. They will have a test on it tomorrow morning. This is essential short hand that they have to know, rather like learning vocabulary in MFL. I can reinforce in the lessons, but we lack the time in the lesson due to constraints of the NC.

Throughout this thread I have said that I don't agree with excessive homework and don't set large amounts myself. However what I do set in very important to me as a teacher (in my understaning of their understanding) and to them, as students. Assistance and input from parents is a vital part in this.

I don't set more homework for the brighter children, I set homework that is attainable by the ability level of the student.

Some posters have seemed more annoyed at the impact of homework on their time than their children's, since they have sugested that homework should be done in extended school time. I disagree with this unless the schools employ homework supervisors, for the reasons I have given previously.