Homework madness

[emkana]

I read today that for 11 year olds the recommendations are that they should do between 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 hours of homework a day. So if school finishes at half past three, then they go home, have something to eat, then do homework - they're finished at six. Isn't that complete and utter madness? When are our children supposed to have a life outside school?
It's still a long way off for my dd's, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to support such recommendations - even though I used to be a secondary school teacher myself.

Philly, I'm intrigued about the school in Norfolk as I know a headmaster who bought his own school in Norfolk about 2 years ago - wonder if it could possibly be him? Do you know anything else about the school?

Personally I don't mind a moderate of homework as it gives me the opportunity to see what my child is doing throughout the term and to get involved in her curriculum. In fact, some people at our school (independent) seem to think that homework is an indication that the school is taking the children's education seriously!

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Scream of disapproval!!

Haven't read all the responses, but, at a governors meeting last night, I spoke to my dd1's class teacher (who also happens to be the teaching staff governor) how much time they should spend on their weekly homework task. His response was no more than 2 hours. In addition to this they are expected to read every evening and also to do some numeracy.

BTW dd1 is in year 6.

Hope this helps.

it makes my blood boil it really does - hey are at school 6 hours a day. my kids have come home plenty of times from junior school last year and said things like - we were doing gardening today at school or we were helping set up the school fair or we looked after the new kids who started today. then they have to come home and do homwork becuase they have not done work at school. imo school is for learning not gardening. break time is for a break. if i could overhaul the system in senior school i would take out PE as a lesson - if you dont want your kids to get fat - dont give then shit to eat and then instead of 2 hours homework - i would rather go for a walk - i agree much more with making sure my children are fit and healthy as my responsability than having to teach them after a 6 hour day at school. then there is music - if you want your child to learn an instrument - thats a home thing not a school thing teach them more maths - thats what is gonna come in handy when they apply for a job - not music GCSE. my kids are in a catholic school - we are catholic and thats the way i like it, but not after options. scrap RE and more maths or english. having a music and RE GCSE and failing core subjects isn't going to get you far.

Custardo, gardening is learning, and lots of children don't have gardens if they live in flats. Many parents can't afford musical instruments for their kids and if parents are lardy couch potatoes, those children would suffer if school didn't offer them PE. Added to which, lots of parents don't have books in their home or a wider cultural outlook. That's where schools come in - they are able to introduce children to a wider world than they would otherwise know exists.

School isn't just a place where children are sent to learn how to be obedient wage-slaves. It's a place where in a developed society, we aspire to maximise the potential of each child. You can't do that if you have a narrow Gradgrind curriculum.

to be frank - i dont care if other kids dont have gardens or lazy parents - their mums can take them to the park if its that important. i cant afford a musical instrumnt either - but thats not what they do in music- if they did that would be great - same as art - great no probs with that. and as nice as it is to think that our kids arnt being developed to be capilalist wage slaves - they are. my kids have no option than to get a job when they leave school university hopes for 2 of mine are non existant - now its a choice between working as tescos as a life career or working as ..well.. anything with a decent wage - i prefer the decent wage for my children. i prefer a higher achievement in core subjects to enable my children to have wider career choices rather than gardening, befriending little new children ( as cuddly and nice as that is) or RE after options level in a catholic school

Custardo, your children are much more likely to get well-paid, satisfying jobs if they have a wide curriculum where doors are opened rather than closed. Landscape gardening pays a fortune! Sportsmen are paid a fortune. Session singing is a good living. But if you want to go into something like advertising, for example, no employer is going to touch you with a bargepole if you come across as dull and uninformed about the world. The same with most interesting jobs. The people who get to the top are those who have interests outside their immediate career - because it's recognised that an intellectual hinterland gives them skills and interests that they may be able to use in their jobs. The hobbies and interests section of the CV really is looked at.

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good post galaxy. mean bean its not that i dont see your point -i do its very well put. i dont want to get rid of drama or art i think they are valuable to a child well being. but taking children out oflesson time for gardening or stacking chairs or setting up tables for the school fate or holding the little ones hands is not IMO useful to my child education. so i think galaxy is right - she more eloquently found the middle ground

Fair enough Meanbean top sportspeople are paid a fortune, but how many of them are there? I would never squash a child's ambition, it is a great thing, but some of them are totaly unrealistic in what they think will happen to them when they leave school.

I once had to talk to a boy about not doing homework. I reasoned that he needed to work to get qualifications to have choice in his job. He told me that he didn't need to as he was going to play cricket (he was age 15). The boy was obese and realisticaly will make the first team the same time as I take over from Kate Moss.

It may be interesting to ponder that I find that there is a direct correlation between the results in my subject (science) and the regularity with which the kids do their homework. I cannot say if this is cause or effect, but it is held out year after year at GCSE. I only give written homework every other lesson, as it is needed.

Used properly It is a massive tool in assessing the level of a child's understanding of a subject and allows me to address probems in understanding before they spiral out of control.

There's the caveat HMB - "used properly". I agree that used properly, it is a good tool, it teaches kids to be responsible for their own study, etc., so I'm all in favour of it at an age when the child is at an age when s/he can take responsibility for it (ie, not when the parents are doing it). But when thirteen year old girls are being prevented from having a life outside school because they are supposed to be doing two hours of homework a night, then that in my view is homework not being used properly.

If it realy prevents a child having a likfe outside of school then I would agree. I also think that at 13 2 hours a night is too much. That said, in our school we finish at 3.00. Most kids will get home by 3.30 (city school with lots of local kids). So even with tea, kids should be finished by 6.00. I would have though that would allow some life outside school?

She has about an hour and a half per night which is "free" ie not homework, getting changed eating, etc. (Gets home at 4pm and can't settle down to homework until 6pm because of other kids etc. Unreasonably enough, her mother expects her to spend some time with her siblings.)

That's the same that I have after cleaning up, putting the kids to bed etc.

But I'm an adult.

About the same as me, after I mark all the homework . But I wouldn't say that 1.5 hours is no life. Too little, yes, I'd agree. Is the homework always due 'tomorrow'? block the work, get into the swing of things and every other night she could have 3 hours which is time for lots of things.

But I don't think she should have to block the work. I think it's unnecessary. And I suspect that her school (a private one) is setting it in order to impress parents with how much homework they set, as if that in itself is a good thing.

If she is doing 2 hours now, at the age of 13, how much will she be doing at A Level?

As I said I also think that 2 hours is too much. Is it taking her two hours? Not being snide, she may well have a nice teacher like me who doesn't set the regualtion half hour! I also ask since my dd can fanny about so that it does take her half an hour where in fact if she sat down and concentrated she could do it in 10-15 minutes, I'm that sad I have timed the 'fannying' sometimes!

Cam,the school is I think Beeston Hall,there was an article in the Telegraph about it about 6 months ago

Up to the age of 16 school finished at quarter past one for me (this was in Germany). In the afternoon I did between half an hour and an hour's homework, sometimes less, rarely more - was very lazy, though, I think we were supposed to do more. The rest of the afternoon I met up with friends, read, played the piano, did all sorts of things... it was wonderful, and it seriously upsets me to think that my dd's will just be bogged down by homework night after night.
The thing is - the pupils who would really benefit from it don't do it anyway, and the ones who are really bright and on the ball would definitely find other ways to spend their time meaningfully - more meaningfully actually than doing some stupid homework!
I think I'll tell my dd's to do their homework, but I'll encourage them to do it as quickly as possible - ie try to do what's supposed to take half an hour in about five to ten minutes.

Gee thanks emkana, I'm half way through marking a well thought out bit of homework that I set for my y10s. If only I had realised that it was 'stupid homework', I could have saved them all the bother and me a lot of work. Rather like the time a boy of 14 told me that his father had told him that teachers only set homework because they are too lazy to do the work in class.

I'm sure they would have much prefered to do no homework, but not so convinced they would have revised the digestive system had I not set it as a mini essay.

I'm sorry, hmb, I certainly didn't mean to upset you, and I'm sure it's an excellent homework which will benefit their learning - and I really mean that. When I was talking about 'stupid homework' I was thinking of the kind of rubbish homeworks I used to set when I was teaching - I could never see the point, because in foreign languages I found it very difficult to set meaningful written homeworks.
Nevertheless it saddens me to think that a child's time is completely taken up by school. You wrote before how the homework could be finished by 6 pm. Now assuming that school starts at 8.45 am or thereabouts, that's a hell of a long day, isn't it? A full working day and more, in fact, and these are children, not adults! Why can't children just have time to be children, not having to work all the time?

I'm a langs teacher too and find it hard sometimes to set meaningful homeworks. I've started to give choices for how they present their homework and have had dsome great results. When we were doing "house and home", a couple of year 8 pupils presented me with a shoe box inside of which they had made and kitted out a model of their bedroom, complete with written description. They said they really enjoyed doing it and liked the opportunity to choose for themselves. I never really thought about impact on parents, but at that age, I presume the majority can work on their own. I wouldn't set a homework I didn't think was within their capabilities but it is hard to get it right when you have classes of 30+ pupils. Think I might give homework more consideration in future. I know what you mean too hmb about spending time lesson planning, setting homework and marking it for kids to put about a minute's effort in. Still, water off a duck's back and all that.

Well, in our school they only spend 4 hours and 40 minutes in the classroom, so a total of 6 hours and 40 minutes if they have 2 hours a day. I know that I don't set two written homeworks a week, and neither do the rest of the science department.
In our SOW the homework eliment is often a work sheet which the kids can complete (in the classroom versions) in 10-20 minues max. On other days I will set, 'find out' homework, not involving the internet/encyclopedias (for equal ops reasons) and these will take 5 minutes max. Sometimes the written work is ditched if they need to learn something. Setting written homework for the sake of it is nonsense, and I don't know any teacher that does it TBH.