I know this is mild punishment, but would you be O.K with it?

[macwoozy]

My ds told me that whilst in class, all his classmates were handed out biscuits for 'being good' but because my ds had been naughty that day, he wasn't allowed any. He's 7 years.

That's how I feel. I can accept that if ds had been naughty then he needs to be punished in an appropriate way, but denying him biscuits just seems pathetic.

sounds like the teacher could do with some more support/training in order to learn how to better assist your son through the day.

Biscuits a no no , punishment is poor but the gerkin takes the biscuit.
boom boom

macwoozy, as the mother of a boy of five with Aspergers, this makes my blood boil frankly. 'Naughty' has a completely different meaning for ASD children, and punishment like this is almost never ever helpful or appropriate.
YOu should have a home/school book to communicate the events of his day in, and for you to respond and make suggestions. What help does he have in class? Is he on school action plus or are you going for a statement?
My ds is having a really tough time at school at the moment. I am sure he is stressed out by the prospect of change and is exhausted so particularly fragile. These behaviours are usually the result of anxiety. The more I think of that little boy being made to write a note over and over again the more I feel. I would be at the school and steaming about that, frankly.

Nope. Not fair for several reasons:

1. He should not have been told that he was 'naughty' (what he did may have been naughty but that doesn't mean he is naughty)

2. Punishment should fit the 'crime' so to speak. It should be a logical consequence of the behaviour not a random thing decided upon later. (e.g. if he had thrown cookie dough on the floor when he was making the cookies, this might be an appropriate punishment. If he was just winding the teacher up and these were cookies out of a packet then it isn't)

3. Was he warned when he was 'being naughty' that, if he continued, he would not get a biscuit later?

4. Using food as a reward/ punishment is not acceptable. Especially in a school.

However, like you said, it's only a little thing and is not likely to have a lasting impact on anyone. I would assume that it is a one off, that the teacher was pissed off and would try not to get too upset about it.

I've spoken to him again this morning and it appears he did actually hit the dinnerlady knocking her glasses off, I think she was restraining him. I've heard of children get suspended for this sort of behaviour so not getting a biscuit might sound rather trivial to many parents. It's just that his stress levels are sky high at the moment, like you say aloha it could well be the changes that are happening at school at the moment, and I'm also aware that he's having big problems in the playground as well. I just know how my ds reacts and being forced to write a letter 3 times and not getting a biscuit is a huge deal for ds and I just don't see how this will help ds in his current emotional state. But then I know I have to consider that hitting a dinnerlady is a huge deal and is totally unacceptable. He woke up this morning in a real state and I really don't know if I'm making a bad decision here, but I've decided not to send him into school.

Aloha, he is currently being statemented, requested by the school, so I feel I owe them IYKWIM, he did have a home book but that's now stopped. He's so emotional that I'm considering not sending him in for the rest of the school term, but I'm unsure if I'm just being too over protective. He's just so so angry at the moment.

I'd be very irritated if a school was giving my son biscuits at all, tbh.

I thought it was fruit they gave out, not biscuits?

if it's any consolation your ds isn't the only one finding the end of term hard-going - my ds1 has been completely unravelling in the last few days - he has asperger's and Tourette's. He's now been banned from the playground for swearing at a teacher - which is completely unacceptable I know, but I can't see how preventing a child who needs to have a lot of opportunities for physical release from charging around twice a day is going to be anything other than completely counterproductive - I'm also in two minds as to whether to pull him out for the rest of term ...

Oh dear, not good at all. I hope that's not a ban for the rest of the term??

Well I've decided to pull him out. I managed to get an appt with the gp, it's not over the biscuit incident but a combination of events at school that have caused him to be so distressed and angry. She agrees that under the circumstances it's best to let him finish now.

Now I'm going to have to contact the school, could I just do it over the phone???? I just hope they'll understand.

I relly really don't want to upset anyone here, but I do think it's helpful to give all the relevant information in an OP. Now that I know your child has AS, I feel completely differently about it. I would have been quite happy if a teacher has said to my ds, who is NT "Look, I said that if you were good you could have a biscuit as a treat at break, but you did x,y and z, so you aren't going to get a biscuit" I really don't think this is an appropriate way to deal with a child with AS.

I don't think it's an appropriate way to deal with this kind of incident, whether the child has SN or not TBH.

Witholding a biscuit may (or may not ) be an appropriate punishment for being 'naughty' ie low level disruption, but hitting a member of staff is not being 'naughty'. And it sure as hell doesn't apply to a child with HFA, at the end of the school year, when most children are finding the going pretty tough.

We used to write appropriate responses to challenging behaviour (agreed with parents) on IEPs, so that there was a degree of consistency. Do you have anything like that? This was in a secondary school BTW - where many more teachers were involved.

I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Macwoozy - the fact that your child has HFA changes everythng for me.

I don't know what the techniques are for keping things on an even keel for ASD chiuldren (i somply don't know anythng about it0 but like Aloha, my blood boils at the thought of him being made to do something he just can't do - write neatly. And that the school haven't managed to negotiate the fact that end of term is causing him problems. From the little I have picked up on MN, i thought that one of the most common characteristics of ASD was finding transitions of any kind v hard - and that children need help through transition and change. A general, dissociated witholding of biscuit seems very inappropriate and unproductive if that isn't how he learns.

Do you mean oull him out permanently, or for the rest of the term?

I'm pulling my son out of school for the last week - we've booked a holiday in Majorca which we all desperately need. It's been pretty horrific of late. I am really struggling with the constant anxiety about what kind day ds is having/will be called/having to take him home for lunch (in the hope of stopping him unravelling completely), my own intense frustration at anyone's inability to change his behaviour in school, my worries about yr1, my worries about how he is being percieved by his peers and if that will translate into bullying further down the line...it's all too much, frankly.
Having ds being punished by being forced to write 'neatly' would just tip me over the edge I think. I'd probably turn up at school with a baseball bat.

Sorry katelyle, but I purposely didn't give all the information in the OP because I wanted to know if it was an acceptable punishment regardless of a SN or not, maybe I'm wrong but I didn't want anyone to pussyfoot around it which I feel is sometimes done with a situation involving a child with SN, I just wanted a straight answer, which thanks to everyone I got.

aloha I really do hope that year 1 will be a happier time for your ds, I know exactly of the anxiety you describe. When ds has a particularly bad time at school he shouts and pushes me after school. I hate it and dread what type of mood he's in. Sometimes I see the horrified look on the other parents faces and it cuts me up inside. Now at least I've got 51 days (yep counted!) of not having to endure that. Enjoy Majorca.

I've only pulled him out for the rest of the term, the headteacher was lovely on the phone, totally understanding and spoke of ds being more stressed than usual over the last week or so, and yes blu, changes of any kind does effect ds, and there's been plenty of that lately. I was surprised to hear the head hadn't even been told of the hitting incident.

meandmyflyingmachine, no I had nothing like that on his IEP, but I'm hoping that when he'll have his statement in place at his next school they'll think of better punishments and strategies than withholding a biscuit and writing a sorry note 3 times.

Using biscuits as a discipline technique really stinks. I would be pissed off whether my son was NT or not.

I would push for that on the IEP Macwoozy. You don't need to have a statement to have an IEP that is actually of some use.

Statements can be IME somewhat vague on actual strategies for use in the classroom. Teachers often need it absolutely spelled out to them what is and isn't appropriate. So at the very least you can tackle them if they do it wrong

Have a good break anyway

Yes, that is something I will ask about at his next school. Thanks.

My ds is never remotely out of control at home, but I can tell from a wild look in his eye sometimes, and the home school book has been horrific lately. I am atually thinking of not sending him in tomorrow. The constant stress is bad for everyone.

TBH I don't see how missing out the last week or so of the school year is going to make a huge difference. My ds won't be seeing any of his classmates again, but that's actually a huge relief for him, today he's been so much happier and calmer. How much do they actually learn at the end of the year anyway, it's all about special assemblies and parties etc, situations that are not easy for children with AS.

It's fine.

Glad he's feeling a bit happier

Oh yes indeed. My ds was able to hit all the end of year blooming targets before he started, and he's having a hideous time. I think that's it for us, frankly.

What will you do Aloha?

Next term I mean?

oh. sigh. we have had a letter about the measures being put in place. We are going through statementing and school is supporting us. I would like him to change schools really, but have zero energy. Am hoping a good rest plus maturing plus new measures (inc autism support & ed pych) will help. Am not overwhelmingly optimistic tbh. But September is another month.