state v private - is it worth scrimping and scraping to go private?

[sanae]

We have moved area and I am really not happy with school here. Not a bad school, but DCs were in an excellent state school before and I have to say I am really disappointed with this one. We are considering a move back but the old school is full. I have wondered about trying an independent school(in Andover)but we would really have to scrimp and scrape to afford this and I would have to go back to working full time, long hours etc. Is private education really so much better considering it might mean missing out on other things eg holidays, extracurricular activities? Would I feel out of my league with other wealthier parents? Also I would like one of my kids to try for grammer school(Salisbury)and thought independent ed might be better springboard for 11 plus. Anyone any comments?

dont put your family under stress for a private ed. It really isnt worth it. I speak as the child of parents who did the scrimping and saving, no holidays, no new clothes thing. All it taught us, was that we couldnt succeed if left in the big, wide world, and how to be poor.

I think that's a very good point Nightynight, don't put your family under stress to the point that your children are self concious about it.

I attended an independant primary, a state secondary, a very competitive pre universitary school (state one), and a state university that, in terms of expenses, for me was private as I had to pay the fees as an international student (and a nagging mother who was not very helpful because she didn't aprove of my choice), Anyways....

The primary was hard, as my parents had decided to focus on "the important" and set a war against superficialities (If you remember the movie "about a boy"... well, imagine the boy -without that mother- and that was me!). My parents thought they were helping but they just made of us outcastst not having much to in common with other children. I still don't think this was based in economic problems, as they both were doing quite well, but the effect may have been the same.

Having said that, I almost starved myself to get through University. It was a difficult time, many times I had to decide between having lunch or using the money to get the materials that I needed and yes, I have learned how painful hunger can be. It was hard but well worth it, and I ended up my studies with a feeling of self worth I had never had before, but this may have been due to the fact that, unlike at primary, this was self inflicted, so instead of feeling like a looser I felt I could do whatever I wanted as long as I was prepared to work hard for it.

Obviously all this babble is irrelevant to the thread but...

but nothing... I have no excuse

thanks, I'm still listening - will give the prostitution a miss though

It really depends on how much you will be scrimping. Mad to 'suffer' imo.

Agree with tutors in year 5 if you need.

There are osme very dodgy private schools around

any chance of scholarshiops? Salisbury choir school?

i heard on radio 4 the other day that 12% of people are privately educated and about half of all people in good jobs are from private schools.. so the odds of doing well academically and career-wise are v much in favour of those who go privte.

then again, theres more to life than careers, theres more diversity in children than that takes account of, statistics can say anything you want them to and i cant really remember the details of what was said anyway memory like a seive).

still, it made me feel good about being fortunate enough to send my dc to alovely local private school. its down to me to teach them about RL now, andthe school to get the school stuff right, rather than the other way around (as was the case in Hackney where i went to school, and failed a lot). am more comfortable with it that way round tbh.

a close friend of mine (who is not wealthy) has her dd in a private school and ds in state (dc's choices). although she says the standard of education, opportunites, facilities etc are far superior at dd's school, she is at her wits end with her dd's attitude towards money/ material things. dd feels constantly 'hard done by' because her mum cant afford the same holidays/cars/clothes as her peers. In fact their relationship is at breaking point as dd believes her mum and dad are 'losers' for not achieving a standard of living comparable to other parents at her school. now this kid might have ended up a revolting brat regardless of the school but i would bet my life that the chip on her shoulder has been borne out of a "small fish in big pond" syndrome.
im not against private by the way, just think its something to take into consideration.

This is all to come in our ds future, and yes we will pay to go private. We live outside Salisbury and the Secondaries are pretty poor at this time, and we will not play around with our ds education.

Unfortunately, the boys grammar school does have a catchment area - which they seem to have specifically excluded our area

www.bws.wilts.sch.uk/Policies/Admissions/catchment%20area.htm

I know of a couple of boys from our road who do go, so it is possible - but i had heard that tutoring is the norm to get in, and to be honest I don't want to go down that route. If my ds is bright enough i want him to get in on his own merit, not to be tutored, struggle and be miserable. But that is just my opinion.

only to 13

choristers

god, i think custardo's hit the nail exactly. i went to a private school with parents making loads of sacrifices and i could never have the latest clothes or trips etc and it made me very shy.

by the time my brother was born, they were worn out and he went to the local comp, but had a much better childhood, with camping trips, holidays, cool clothes etc. it all came out in the wash - we are both doing fine, but he had a lot more fun getting here!

My first question when I saw the title was 'it depends what the state schools in your area are like' but I see you've answered that and are not happy with the schools in your new area which does weigh in. I was only going to say that one shouldn't fall for the feeling and the hype (obviously well-supported by private schools, which are a business after all and rely on people believing that) that all private schools must offer something much better than all state schools and that your state-school child is automatically getting a lesser deal.

My DD1 attended a very good private school and had all the trimmings you could want, which much impressed me (idiot that I was) - oh, the beautiful swimming pool, the posh Speech Day picnic, the labs, beautiful chapel and school buildings, the tiny class sizes! But she was never happy there, never fitted in with the rich-girl cliques which this school was quite prone to. She begged us to take her away pre-6th form, but she had been on a very generous music scholarship which the school threatened to make us pay back if she left (it was in the small print) and it ran to a huge amount we couldn't afford. She had to stay, but to this day resents the school and blames some of her later problems on the unhappy time she had there. (It was an excellent school in many ways. Just not right for her.)

DD2 was given a major academic and music scholarship to the same school, coupled with a bursary which would have reduced her fees to a minimal amount. How tempted was I! but we also have an excellent state grammar in the area and we turned down the private school and sent her there, and it has been the best decision we ever made. No frills, big classes, but a much more 'normal' environment and my only regret is that we didn't do the same for DD1. In fact, I wouldn't do the private route ever again and think it's highly overrated, unless you have absolutely no half-way decent state options in the area.

This thread's fascinating as we're considering moving our 3 dc's from lovely state primary in SW London out of town (Farnham/Guildford) to get decent state secondary schools.

We could go private if necessary but if possible would prefer to save cash for 1)their university fees 2) house deposits for them 3) pensions for ourselves. These 3 items were not an issue for our own parents' generation but are for us!!

DH and I were both privately educated (expats with dad's company supporting fees) but not convinced it should be necessary for 'bright' kids. Maybe we're deceiving ourselves but the thought of 3 sets of school fees would keep our noses to the grindstone well into our sixties

I do not quite understand yet how scholarships for very young children work.
Would they be too disapointed at being refused an scholarship after preparing hard for the test/trial?

If they have a bad moment in school for x,y,z reason (as they all may have), would they loose the scholarship? I supose they would do but then, how do a child survive the burden of being responsible for "paying" for his own education?

Nightynight's point is an excellent one.

There is more to life than school . It's very important to teach your children that.

Only read the OP. Answer to thread title question: NO.

Personally, in answer to the OPs post I'd say it's not worth it. If you have to scrimp and save and miss out on other things with your children then I feel any benefit of the private system would be lost as they'd miss out on seeing you.

I am not against private education but if you have to miss out on other (fun) things with your children by working long hours to afford the fees then IMO it's not worth it.

It so depends what area you are in.

But.....look at all the possibilities, state and independent, putting the cost issue to one side. Which school 'feels' right for your dc? Then - if there is cost involved - decide whether you are able to go for that option.

There is an excellent girls state school in our area, but it would have been far too academic for my dd, who does not cope well with pressure. She might have got in (only might!), but would not have suited her character at all. Unfortunately the other state options would not have been our choice.

It is unusual to get a scholarship in the junior school part form - as far as I know - choristerships and some music. Academic ones work mainly in the lower/senior schools.

Yes it can be disappointing if you don't get in. My ds1 didn't get in first time as a chorister but he did second time.

For chorister scholarships you are offered a pre audition which can be informal.

or music scholarships your child will already be working pretty hard and showing amazing promise anyway.

HOpe that helps

Because of the changes in charitable status regulations, prep schools are having to offer scholarships and bursaries. In dd?s school they are done by an entry test at 7plus, I have noticed a lot of private school advertising new bursaries for 7 plus entry recently.

My parents nearly killed themselves to send my brother and I to private secondary schools. The level of guilt that it put on my brother and I was ridiculous. Neither of us had the brains to meet my parents' high expectations.

My parents sacrificed a lot of other stuff to pay school fees (they never planned to - they had assumed we would go into grammar schools but they disappeared!) - but never made us feel guilty about it.

My aim for my DC is to choose the right school for them as people regardless of whether that happens to be state or private. Hard to do, since money is inevitably a factor, but that's the aim.

I would be inclined to look more closely at the private school options before you beat yourself up too much about whether to do it or not - as others have said, there may not be anything worth paying for.

BTW - MuppetGirl - I empathise - we moved away from Swindon to escape the schools there - which private school have you gone for?

milijee - "I think there IS a risk of a parent who has really had to sacrifice to get their DC into a private school feeling quite resentful when the DC shrugs and reminds DP it was THEIR decision"

I couldn't agree more. I got a 'good' education at a girls private school. Ended up with good A levels and on course for Cambridge. But flunked the entrance interview by being terrified and deciding to change my subject from law to English. So ended up at a less prestigious uni and getting a third rate degree. My parents never expressed their disappointment in any clear terms but as they years go by they say things from time to time that make it clear And I do feel guilty.

My parents still drone on at my brother and myself about all the sacrifices they made to educate us privately - the subtext being that we're both a bit shit and should have done better considering all the cash they spent on us.

Which is ridiculous as both of us have decent careers, families etc.

This has quite frankly put me off private education, coupled with the fact that I loathed the school I went to in 6th form. I was badly bullied - most people find this very hard to imagine as I don't take any shit - and I had nightmares about the place for a good ten years after leaving. I occasionally bump into other people who went there, who I always assumed were "cool" and "popular" and they loathed it too for a multitude of reasons.

There was a massive drug problem at the school with people taking LSD and cocaine on the school premises - this was in the late 80s, so god knows what it's like now as drugs are far more readily available (and relatively cheaper) than they were then.

I also think that people who think it's just a matter of saving enough money to pay the fees have got it badly wrong. It's about where you live, what car mummy and daddy drive and whether you go to Barbados for your hols. I was thought of as a complete pikey at the school I attended, which is insane as my dad was a university professor.

I think it highly unlikely that I will ever have anough money to compete with the global super rich who send their kids to private school in London. I have lived here all my life and like living here so moving is not really an option.

I'm afraid it's state schooling for ds, which doesn't really bother me as I've learnt that where you went to school is not what makes you a happy or successful adult.

I think the idea that private school = a happy or succesful child is a fools paradise.

I think you do need to feel relaxed about your choice for it to work. Accept that if you've chosen to pay, it really is your choice, not some sort of carrot/stick combination to make the kids do well. If your child mucking about for a term or a year would make you see pound signs, then I'd wonder if it would be a good thing.

I agree, MsLucy, but then the opposite assumption (private school = screwed up child) is equally not true.

Maybe just because we were lucky, or because my parents chose well on our schools, or because we didn't rebel, but I and my 2 DB's both survived fine in private schools when our parents could only just (with the help of scholarships) afford the fees - we never went on school ski trips, or had the cool clothes / holidays / whatever but it genuinely never bothered us or resulted in bullying.

I think what I am trying to say is that it can work and can be the best decision for your DC..