Schools can only do so much, parents are the key

[SilentSister]

Having recently watched "School" and "Growing up Gifted" I can't help feeling that no matter how much money, effort and support, you focus on certain schools, or certain children, the most important factor that defines their life outcomes are their parents.

The teachers in these schools were all committed to, and supportive of, their students, and so frustrated when their efforts are not reflective in the students outcomes.

So many recent threads have focused on inequality in education, and the money available, however, looking at these two documentaries, the single biggest issue with these children, gifted or not, was their parents attitude and the environment they lived in.

Even those who lived in similar circumstances, if their parents were supportive and active, their children will likely do better than those others with little or no interest in their children.

So, it's not the money, or the teachers, or actually often, even the children, but the parents and the living environment.

So, what as a society can we possibly do to change the circumstances of these children. I don't have an answer.

I agree that parents make a big difference to a child's educational outcome. The problem is that not everyone does. There are other factors, such as genetics., which others think will override whatever else parents try to do. "A child will reach the ceiling of what they are capable of." or "Even if you try educating, the others will just catch up when they start school." type of thinking.

There is then the train of thought along the lines of, leave it to the school, they know what they are doing, you do not.

I have tried suggesting parents teaching a child is a good idea and no matter how much I suggest a balancing this with other activities the put down, "hothousing", crops up.

There is also the blatant denial that those with gifted children have done anything to help their child, which is understandable as the alternative is being accused of being a pushy, hothousing parent. But does perpetuate the myth that a gifted child is somehow a breed apart who has worked out the code for reading all by themselves by the age of 3 or, in a few short years, worked out maths that has taken millennia to attain.

I still have a theory that education does make a difference, but I, nor anyone else should be dictating to parents how to bring up their children. All I can do is say, this is what I think. If another parent takes a different view, it is up to them.

I have worked in one of the worst schools in the country. Some of those kids had absolutely no chance, whatever the school did, because their backgrounds were beyond chaotic.

Even in a "naice" school I was told by one child that no, they would not be taking a library book because "Mummy says books make the house look messy". I had no answer!

To be honest this is one of the things that drives me crazy about all the school hysteria on MN (and I don't exonerate myself from this!) - if you're invested enough in your child's education to post on here about it then chances are - and I generalise of course - you're invested enough to support your child through all the stages of their education.

Statistically we know that the bulk of a child's success at school will be predicated by their background. This is of course vastly, iniquitously unfair on the huge numbers of talented children whose families are unwilling or unable to give them the same backup as m/c, tertiary-educated parents can. It's heartbreaking watching those programmes. As Irma says, it cuts across financial lines. It's about culture and expectations and the time (more than the money, in fact) that parents can put into their children's achievements.

It depresses the hell out of me and does put some of the threads on here in perspective. It's helpful to be reminded of that.

I think parental support, family circumstances and also the financial circumstances are key. If two children of equal ability are struggling with a subject but one can afford lots of extra tuition then this kid is going to get further ahead. How often is this happening in schools? Similarly parents that can afford to pay for lots of extra curricular activities such as music and sport are able to give their kids more opportunities that many people cannot afford.

I also believe that parents need to be willing and able to advocate for their kids, particularly in secondary schools where they can easily get left behind due to setting and become just a number. The ones that show an interest and ask the teachers for help on how to get them moved up seem to get it but those that do not ask stay where they are.

It is certainly not a level playing field.

Ime many children are 'pump primed' with activities and tutors which gives them many advantages.

However the stability and love of a family are also key to success.

When both are together anything is possible in my experience

This is so true. I work in a 'naice' school with lots of professional & well to do parents and it's amazing how many kids are behind because their parents simply haven't got the time/energy/willingness to work with them. I naively didn't expect this from an mc school!

For the most part I think you are right and the obvious consequence of acknowledging this is that we have to be realistic about what society can achieve for some kids. In my opinion the most important thing is that children have good mental and physical health and the skills necessary to be independent adults. Top grades in schools subjects and university degrees are not a guarantee of those things.

Over the years I have read so many different academic studies on the factors that drive educational outcomes. One study claimed that a child's friendship cohort was key. Another that a small percentage of underprivileged children in an affluent class brought attainment up, but when you tip the balance beyond a certain point then everyone's attainment went down. Others are more deterministic and claim our genes play by far the biggest role.

We can track trends, but there are always people whose life paths show it is possible to take a different course, for better or for worse. I have known a number of people in my life for whom this is true. Notably most often boys.

One friend from a caring but uneducated family said a friend of his Dad's gave him a kick up the backside by laying out very clearly that he was on the wrong path, that he still had a choice, but if he left it much longer then it would be too late. It was a Damascus moment for him and totally transformed his attitude. What I learnt from his experience is that children have to want to do well for themselves. I think you can encourage this self-belief from quite a young age, but we self-depreciating Brits are particular bad at it and my suspicion is that this cultural baggage doesn't help.

Well for Shakira last night there was chaos, the wrong living conditions, the wrong friends and just about everything else being wrong. If someone wants to be tattoo artist then they probsbly don’t need exams.

I thought the school that made the girl do Her English exam early was appalling! The resulting mess really was down to the school and she got way too much praise for a her results. No caring parent would have gone along with the schools plan but she didn’t live with her mum. Her friends mum was well meaning but had no idea. How gifted is she? Not sure.

The girl who wants to go into the 6th form at a Grammar was badly let down too. Her mum is a nurse and is better informed and knows what is needed.

Two girls had SEN siblings and none were really getting a chance to show what they could do either by poor parenting or poor schools. It was hard watching it!

Is it possible to be a mentor and advocate for children like this?

Re mentoring, I don’t know anything about them, but this organisation was highlighted on the Gifted twitter chat last night, it covers some of the country: www.theaccessproject.org.uk/

mmmyesss….

otoh:

I am the descendant on both sides of the family of people whose parents were unable to invest much in their education due to their own lack of understanding of education- yet they thrived because of supportive school teachers and were able to push themselves out of poverty due to that support. It made a difference, it really, really did.

however much you invest as a parent your efforts can still be thwarted by a school environment where learning is sneered at, where your child is constantly being told that children from here are not expected to be very academic, or that their disability means they will never succeed at anything- even worse if those signals are being sent by teachers

Nothing has damaged my dd's learning so much as her primary headteacher's insistence that she would never cope with secondary school if she wasn't able to stop being ill.

Nothing has damaged my son's learning so much as the constant signals from teachers and headteachers alike that "of course families from this demographic are not likely to be very interested in learning". What he took from this was that normal families were not interested in learning and the fact that his family was was something weird and embarrassing.