"babies born in summer 20% less likely to attend university". Higher Ed Funding Council for England

[miljee]

I cannot remember whether it was here on 'education' or on 'primary' that I made the remark that I'd read somewhere months ago that something like 80% of Oxbridge Entrants are Sept-Dec born, thus supporting the idea that place in a school year DOES influence outcome. Someone (who didn't believe me!) asked for the long gone link but this is something I saw in the paper today. I admit it was The Sun but it goes on to say "The council says students who are very young for their school year tend not to catch up". The email is [email protected] if you want to verify this!

I'm not really banging a drum, here, just pointing out that my Oxbridge remark was probably quite accurate!

Fircone, you could try: "Well, as DH and I were so academically successful, we planned to have our children in the summer so that they wouldn't be terribly bored at school."

Or alternatively: "We feel it's really sad to reduce the miracle of conception and birth to some kind of statistics game, but I guess some people don't have much to think about."

My dd goes to grammar school and she is an August born baby. However, there are only 2 children born in August in her class. Most children are born from September to December. I have heard in the past lots of parents saying how unfair it is for older children to have to score higher in age standardised tests, but I think my dds experience bears out that age standardisation is quite important. The older ones still seem to do better.

I have found that rather than intelligence, it is the organisational skills that my dd lacks. She is always in a total mess with her books, etc. It just seems unfair that she will always be sitting exams early = ie, GCSEs when she is 15, AS levels when she is 16 and A levels when she is 17.

I used to worry about this very issue, but in terms of her success at school so far, she hasn't been hindered. We will see in the future.

I was born in late July and have got 3 degrees, and was the first in my family to go to Uni so I hope people don't worry too much about the report

I'd agree there, figroll- the raw intelligence may be there but the ability to organise it in a 'productive' way may be lagging behind.

FWIW I'm a Dec baby BUT I entered grammar a year early. Big mistake. I took my O's and A's a year early and I just know I would have gotten more out of the whole secondary school experience if I had had the maturity to match my alleged intellect!

Finally, as the mother of 2 May born DSs, I do what I can to support them; I mutter under my breath when their performance is measured against DCs who are upto 9 months older than themselves but I don't wind myself up into a lather. Most of life's day to day institutional experiences ARE One Size Fits All. There's not much getting away from that without the exhaustion of trying to micromanage every aspect of a child's life. There will always be kids who bear out the stats, and those who fly in the face of them. At the end of the day, when the Sept born child is suddenly struggling at college having been given to believe that he'll always be top of the class, the August born child may realise a talent for something they feel passionate about a bit later on in life and enter college to study that subject as a mature student, full of conviction and far more likely to succeed.

not read through all the thread so apol. if this has already been mentioend... Up here in Scotland the school intake runs from March to Feb so March-Oct babies are seen as the luckiest in terms of maturity etc.

I know at primary school when we were streamed by age my class was looked on as the smartest

I'm a May baby and ds is June -

My eldest sister is July and has a law degree from Edinbugh uni

middle sister is June and has a maths degree from Edinburgh uni

I have a so-so degree from Glasgow uni!

My Mum would say our brains are down to our healthy no nonsense diet growing up!

My elder brother and myself went to university and got very good degrees (both June born). My younger sister and my younger brother did not go to university (both winter born)

I bet there are statistics proving that was a case of birth position in the family

Yes there are stats relating to birth position in families.

Re everyone who keeps posting in about being born on Aug 31st yet having 4 first class honours degrees from Harvard- THESE ARE STATISTICS! Human nature would dictate more August borns who get good degrees will post informing us of that fact than Sept borns broadcasting their abject academic failure, won't they?! It's doesn't nullify the statistic!

This has to be rubbish. Our eldest (June birthday) has just graduated form Cambridge and he jumped an academic year on route too. (due to differences in Scottish and English year groups). Number six has just down the same (he is now young for the year in an English prep school. He was old for his Scottish state school. This child has just got himself into top sets too. I have to quickly add, that we live in the outback and haven?t done cramming or rush around after school activities. They don?t read enough either ? 100% play station kids until they trashed it. If you are really worried about Oxbridge send your child to state schools. The one who has just left Cambridge went there with 5 As at A level and met up with folk from state schools with fewer exams and lower grades. I have no problem with this as public school children are spoon fed. However, I am not sure that it is a level playing field nowadays. We paid for choice ? only one language and 2 science was on offer at the local state in the Glens and no Latin etc.

Miljee - exactly. Makes me grind my teeth, this anecdotal stuff

I like to see stats and rigorous research rather than anecdotes too.

But so far this "statistic" in the OP that 80% of Oxbridge entrants are Sept-Dec born is an anecdote, til we actually see the research it's based on.

The 80% is erroneous, fennel - "20% less" is more like 60%-40%, and that's university in general, not Oxbridge - but still, if it's correct, 60%-40% is a significant difference...

Surely it is common sense that younger children will be at a disadvantage comnpare to older ones in the year. Unfortunately for most of us fertility is not something which can be accurately controlled to produce perfect Winter babies!

dd1 is October born and dd2 is July. Other than provide the kind of parental support I'm hoping I'd do anyway is there anything I could do to help dd2 cope with her school life (once she gets there - she is only 11 months at the moment!)

Not read all of the thread either but here in Belgium the intake year is the calendar year. My March child did better in the first three years of primary (ages 6-9) than my December child (13%, 9%, 6% respectively) but by fourth year primary this had pretty much evened itself out. I find it hard to believe that it's still relevant at university age.

oh dear no hope for mine then!
3 August birthdays here!
(I know!....not good planning but its my Birthday in November and its a cheap way to celebrate )

For those of you who are stating that the statistics must be rubbish because you know someone who has a summer birthday and gone to university, can I just take an opportunity to explain what the stats are saying, because it is rather doing my head in

The stats say that summer born children are 20% less likely to go to universiy. This means that for every 10 children born in Sept - Dec that go onto university, 8 summer born children will go to university. Or 80 compared to 100, or 800 compared to 1000 or 8000 compared to 10000, or 80000 compared to 100000.

The stats aren;t saying no summer born children ever go to university!

It is by no means a great surprise that many of you know of summer born children who have gone onto university!

My Sept born, nearly 4 year old, ds is very bright academically for his age, he's already capable of doing reception level maths etc, and his nursery teachers have commented extensively on it, but he still can't wipe his own bottom or dress himself. I'm pleased that he won't be going to school this September (although finanacially it would help us enormously) because I think that the social aspects of that transition would be overwhelming for him. I trust and rely on the school to meet his academic needs once he starts in September next year and hope that he will be capable and confident in other ways when he eventually starts school. Primary school is about so much more than SATs scores and the 3 R's, and frankly who cares about Oxbridge, you don't necessarily need that to be successful in life.

Oh, and I'm a July born who never struggled at school and did go to university gaining a 2.1 (although not Oxbridge) but am a major underachiever in life generally. Hence proving nothihng.

I totally agree with those stats. It's common sense.

It's yet another example of parental control over their own children being removed - we should be the judges of whether our children start school at 4 or 5.

It breaks my heart to think of my August born dd starting school whether or not she is ready.

We should all be fighting for the right to defer entry if WE(not the Local Authority) feel it is in our childrens' best interests. If parents of the young for year children in Scotland have that choice, shouldn't we all?

I agree with caterpiller. I have a late June baby and I wish I could defer her for a year. Perhaps we could organise a march?!!!!

sorry went away from the thread, I thought so snorkle
schneebly feel for your ds but i'm sure he;ll be fine after a little while, the gap betewwn just 4 and just 5 can be so large for some children
Hallgarda I've always thought there was a peak in Sept/Oct to see an August peak was v. surprising!

Agree parents should be able to defer start date. WOnder if it comes under 'age discrimination?'

My primary school was exceptionally good at bringing out the best in all kids - no matter when they were born. Our classes were staggered with the years above and below (total intake of 45 per year group) this encouraged us to mix with other classes as loads of our friends were moved around and we were neither the oldest nor youngest (mature / immature) in the class for more than one year. I cannot remember there being any issues with this arrangement. All of the kids in my year were really well adjusted as a result and the younger ones (me included) were no worse off academically or sportswise. My dd is starting her school with this arrangement in September - it comes of no surprise to me that it has also got gleaming inspection results.

Panicking a bit at this thread! My ds is 6 next week, and in Y1. We moved house and schools last year, and the new school 'sets' classes according to age - BUT because we moved after the classes had been set, he is in the 'older' children class. So all the other Y1s in his class have Sept/Oct birthdays, and then there's one from April who also joined late, and my ds in late July. The school asked me the other week if I'd like him to move to the 'younger' class for Y2 and I said no as he would want to stay with his current friends; and also the young Y2s and the old Y1s are actually taught together, so it would mean staying in the same class for two years. But did I do the right thing??? REassurance or advice would be helpful as it probably isn't too late to change my mind. But Ds is very friend-orientated, perhaps friend-dependent...and found leaving one set of friends when he moved house very hard emotionally, so I don't want to do that to him again. He is perfectly normal academically, perhaps even bright-ish, (he's roughly in the middle of his class judging by the colour of the table he's on!) but it definitely shows that he is a year younger in terms of his concentration on tasks etc.

I'm also feeling very silly as DH and I thought a bit about this (we're both high acheiving Sept/Oct bdays) and deliberately thought that summer would be better if our child was (as likely) bright, as I was bullied quite badly for being by far the brightest in the year(combination of being bright and also being the oldest).

Don't panic miranda - you know your child best. If your child is happy, with friends and doing well at school (as it sounds as though he is) then staying with his class will be the right thing for him as your gut feeling suggested. Longer term, I'm sure with supportive parents (as you obviously are) he will do well in spite of his age and I think one of the studies suggested that those summer-borns who do get to university do slightly better there - maybe those early difficulties give strength of character later on - who knows?

I was born the end of June and went on to complete an MSc and my Husband was born end of August and he did a PhD. Not at Oxbridge though. We are both the youngest child in our respective families and so shouldn't do as well either but thats another story.

I guess it all depends on the individual. I knew what I wanted and had to work hard for it whereas it came more naturally to my husband.

Our kids are both summer babies and hope they will do well too.