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Original poster

Help with drafting a withdrawal letter

60 replies

Crazybird2018 · 19/12/2018 08:46

Hi Mumsnet

Could someone help me to draft a withdrawal letter from RE, please?

I’m not a native English speaker and don’t know how to word it. I want to withdraw my Year 7 daughter from her RE lessons.

My daughter has ASD and finds it difficult to concentrate if she finds something confusing. That’s how she usually says that RE is very confusing, and she doesn’t want to do it. She generally finds abstract things hard to comprehend, but she is massively into chemistry and biology, and she simply doesn’t get the idea of RE studies. She is in religious school, and she currently has 2 RE lessons per week, which last 90min each. Although, she is totally fine with masses. She only has a problem with RE as a discipline.

So, do I just simply say that I would like to withdraw my daughter from RE, or do I need to give a reason that she doesn’t understand the subject because of her condition?

In my home country, religion is not mixed with education, so I have no problems to withdraw her. My daughter will have a compulsory RE in her GCSE, so I initially thought to withdraw her in Year 9 or 10 closer to GCSE time, but I guess it needs to be dealt now.
Thanks

OP posts:
TeenTimesTwo · 19/12/2018 13:00

My eldest has dyspraxia which it seems can overlap with HFA (I keep looking back to lists of Asperger's in girls and re-ruling it out for DD1) .

She massively struggled (ie failed) in RE (which for her was ethics stuff with religious flavours) because it was so intangible.

be47 · 19/12/2018 20:00

I have dyspraxia and teach religious studies - so not sure that's an explanation for a child not doing well in it! I also have lots of students with ASD who are doing really well, so I do think your DD could succeed with the right support.

As an RS teacher I find this really frustrating - we have so many parents withdraw because they don't know what the curriculum involves (and don't bother finding out), then assume that because their child "doesn't like it", the subject as a whole must be inherently flawed, rather than their child just liking one subject more than another. I don't expect every kid to love RS, but I had to take some subjects I didn't completely love at school, and definitely benefitted from studying them regardless. Have you spoken to her teacher about the curriculum and how to support her with it?

My personal favourite withdrawal was a parent who then complained when the kid was sat in the department office with a member of staff working in there and "no work to do" - I'm not sure I could win either way on that one! It may be worth asking what the alternative arrangements would be just to make sure you're happy with them/check the school have a withdrawal policy in place.

The right of withdrawal is a leftover from when all schools were explicitly Christian and RS was essentially Bible study - not sure how long it'll still be around tbh. Would at least stop the selective withdrawal when we start the Islam topics Angry

Soontobe60 · 19/12/2018 20:09

Sorry, but from what you've said, you clearly have no idea of what goes on in RE lessons. All the world religions are taught, not just Christianity. The students don't sit there reading verses from the bible! And how on earth do you know she's just daydreaming? Are you sat in there with her?
Because she doesn't fully comprehend REnlessons is all the more reason for her to attend!

alansleftfoot · 19/12/2018 20:14

Is this really because you don't want her learning about other faiths/beliefs ?

WhatsUpHun · 19/12/2018 20:16

Why on earth would you withdraw her from RE if she is Catholic?

TeenTimesTwo · 19/12/2018 20:17

be47
One of the things my DD has difficulty with is pulling together opinions / ideas randomly. It's like, instead of her mind being an organised set of filing cabinets with lots of labels and cross references, her mind is loads of post its stuck randomly anywhere.
So when asked 'What is your opinion on ...' then if she hasn't thought about it before (and been talked through her thoughts), she just can't do it. Similarly she just couldn't apply her knowledge of Christian / Islamic / whatever principles to a new topic.

She also couldn't 'grasp' why learning what people believe is as important as learning facts.

It also impacted other subjects, e.g. English Lang 'Write arguments for and against letting children have unlimited screen time'. Now if I ask questions, she can come up with individual points, but she couldn't do a 24 mark question on it in an exam.

I'm actually quite in favour of RE, it is on my shortlist for DD2's options.

IntentsAndPorpoises · 19/12/2018 20:22

I'm an ex-RE teacher, but also have a dd with ASD. I have to say I can see that my dd will struggle with secondary RE, she's only 6 at the moment.

I believe strongly in RE as a subject (obviously I taught it for 15 years!), but I do think the abstract nature of philosophy and ethics is to hard for some children.

Add to that many children with ASD will already find school exhausting, because of the processing issues etc. I don't think it's s a problem to cut a subject or two to help with that.

be47 · 19/12/2018 20:31

TeenTimesTwo
I can see that being an issue - the reformed GCSEs have really upped the evaluation demands across the board so we've ended up in the same boat as English, history etc. Fingers crossed your DD finds it gets easier with practice!

(Side note: I don't think it's fair to ask kids their opinion off the cuff without discussion first - very few people give the best explanation of their view that way, no wonder your DD finds it difficult)

TeenTimesTwo · 19/12/2018 20:50

be47 It's OK Smile.
DD1 with dyspraxia did her GCSEs 3 years ago. Failed RE short course in y10, formally diagnosed with dyspraxia y11, dropped History y11 after mocks, just scraped English Lang after a shed load of intervention.
DD2 is y9. She has her own SpLD, but at the moment I think is managing RE better than a lot of other subjects.

BackforGood · 19/12/2018 21:27

As TeenTimesTwo says, the difficulty with understanding opinons, and understanding that another person might be thinking differently from yourself also come into other humanities and, in particular English Literature. History makes you look at different sources reporting the same thing. Studying any text in English is all about why somebody did X or why somebody felt Y.

It seems very strange to choose to opt out of one subject but be fine in the other subjects that require the same ability to understand that other people think differently (which I do understand many folk on the autistic spectrum find incredibly difficult).
The idea of choosing a Catholic school, standing up 'as a Catholic', attending masses but not being allowed to attend RS lessons is quite frankly, rather odd.

UnderMajorDomoMinor · 19/12/2018 21:33

You do have a right to withdraw: www.gov.uk/national-curriculum/other-compulsory-subjects

Just write and say you want to withdraw her in line with the right to withdraw.

Do expect them to want to talk to you. Just because they will want to understand if there’s an issue they can fix.

BubblesBuddy · 19/12/2018 21:35

No it’s not odd. It’s what some people of faith seem to do. The Church goers wouldn’t let their children go on the trip to the mosque. We were just a village C of E primary school following the agreed RE syllabus. For some, there is only one religion and they don’t want to know about others.

MaisyPops · 19/12/2018 21:35

teen's letter is really good.

Like BackforGood I'm not following thr logic though. Religious school, religious upbringing, lots of abstract concepts in faith, happy to attend Catholic mass where it's taught that bread and wine literally become Christ's blood and body, but then RE is too much and there's a need to withdraw.
It seems a bit like 'we've taught our religious beliefs as fact and now our child is getting confused and overwhelmed at the possibility of other views'.

MaisyPops · 19/12/2018 21:37

BubblesBuddy
I'm increasingly coming to the view that any parents who feel strongly about their child not being exposed to different religiois views/perspectives are either fundamentalists of their chosen position or incredibly insecure that their child might think for themselves.

LoniceraJaponica · 19/12/2018 21:40

"So when asked 'What is your opinion on ...' then if she hasn't thought about it before (and been talked through her thoughts), she just can't do it. Similarly she just couldn't apply her knowledge of Christian / Islamic / whatever principles to a new topic."

This will be a problem when doing GCSEs in history, geography and English literature where often essays start with "Discuss".

alansleftfoot · 19/12/2018 21:45

Agree with Maisy and Bubbles. I taught History, had a parent who objected to anything that they thought criticised Christianity. So Cromwell and puritan rule - complain, the reformation - complain, the Spanish Armada and inquisition- complain. Ridiculous.

TeenTimesTwo · 19/12/2018 21:50

Lonicera This will be a problem when doing GCSEs in history, geography and English literature where often essays start with "Discuss".

Absolutely. Which is why history was dropped after mocks. She really enjoyed the subject but couldn't answer the questions for toffee, especially the source based picture questions. English Lit and Lang were both only passed due to the controlled assessments. Which of course aren't available now...

BackforGood · 19/12/2018 21:58

..... but in terms of Crazybird's dd - who is still only in Yr7 - she can't drop out of History, English, potentially Geography, PHSE, as well as RE now, which is the logic about 'not being able to access'.

ArnoldBee · 19/12/2018 22:01

Yes legally you have the right to withdraw your child from religious worship but I don't think this is actually what you want. You still want her to take part in assemblies, mass etc which given the letter you want to write will also exclude her from these.

Have you tried making an appointment with her tutor/ head of year to discuss this so hopefully you can actually get what you want rather than writing a catch all letter which goes further than your intention?

TeenTimesTwo · 19/12/2018 22:03

Personally I don't think people should be allowed to drop RE due to not wanting them to learn about other religions. It is so important in this modern world to understand where others are coming from.

However the government permits it.
The OP wants it as she says her DD isn't managing it and could usefully use the time elsewhere.
So, using the government get out clause rather than debating the pros and cons of dropping it, seems the way most likely to achieve the OP's end result.

TeenTimesTwo · 19/12/2018 22:06

One fewer subject that a child is struggling with can reduce stress and free up time, enabling more chance of success with other hard subjects.

Surely it's the same logic that has some pupils not doing an MFL but do extra English instead?

eddiemairswife · 19/12/2018 22:19

I think it is important to learn about different faiths, their beliefs and customs. We live in a multi-cultural society, and it helps us to understand our colleagues and neighbours.

MaisyPops · 19/12/2018 22:19

alansleftfoot
We get the same in English- why are you teaching Frankenstein/ Harry potter / witches in Macbeth?
TeenTimesTwo
Different principles to me.
Not doing an MFL to secure maths and English is limiting one subject in order to give tailored teaching in areas of weakness. They are also skills that will help students access a range of subjects as they go through school.
Some of the literacy and numeracy demands for other subjects are much higher than they used to be.

Pulling a child out of RE because (pretty much) its too much / really you want them to be taught about being Catholic but exposing them to any other view is an issue isn't a logical curriculum choice. It would be a child losing a subject where they could learn about different views, learn how to form opinions, get subject knowledge that will help them in English or History or Geography etc.

I think there should only be an exemption from acts of worship though. Shielding children from other views because you don't like them doesn't sit well with me

BackforGood · 20/12/2018 00:07

I agree 100% with Maisypops on this one.

peteneras · 20/12/2018 01:29

"That’s how she usually says that RE is very confusing, and she doesn’t want to do it. . .In my home country, religion is not mixed with education, so I have no problems to withdraw her. . .In my country, we don’t have RE as a school subject, and perfectly fine."

Not trying to be disrespectful here, OP, in my country we do this and we do that but we don't do this and that, etc. . . Fact of the matter is, you are not in your home country and this is how the British do things here! I would seriously consider moving back to my own country if I don't like the way they do things here.

The other point about finding things "very confusing" and wanting to give up kind of defeats the whole idea and purpose of going to school for an education. Life by itself is confusing, so may as well give it up altogether. . . Think about it.

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