Housing and catchment areas?

[Miramonte]

Please forgive my ignorance on this topic before I ask these questions...I grew up and went to school in the United States, so I am a little confused about how schooling works here in general. My husband and I just reserved a new build home we are excited about, it will be our first home. While we aren’t parents yet, we may hope to be in the next 3-5 years and as I’m sure it is for any parent, the education my potential children get is really important to me.

So I realised this house falls just outside the catchment area of the local schools which I have heard better things about and appear to have better gcse results and things. The secondary school which is in the catchment area is rated good by ofsted, but let’s just say I haven’t heard great things about It from people in the community...this also seems to be reflected in the house prices from what I can tell. My questions are, if we live in this house up until potential children are secondary school age, how difficult is it to get into a school outside the catchment area? I’ve read all types of schools use different criteria. The one I was interested in is turning into an academy if that helps. And it says on rightmove that all the local secondary schools, including the one I haven’t heard great opinions about are oversubscribed.

We live near Richmond in North Yorkshire, and we plan to buy our house in Catterick Village. While I really like the house, I’m worried we could have more trouble selling since it’s not in the catchment area of the better schools. I’m not sure it’d make too much difference for primary school, as all the local ones are rated good. I know people move all the time, and I am probably worrying about things way too far in the future (like we may not even be able to get pregnant for starters!), but I am a natural worrier and really just looking for some guidance on wether we should be looking to buy in a better catchment area or if it’s unlikely to be a problem getting children into the preferred school anyway...does everyone just move to get their kids into the preferred schools?

You should be able to see if the better schools out of catchment are undersubscribed generally?
Not sure what that areas like specifically but where I am in midlands secondary school admissions are slightly more flexible than the very very rigid primary.

Things change enormously over time and as you don't even have the children yet, we are talking about 12-15 years time for secondary.

I wouldn't worry too much. Catchments can and do change and so do schools and public opinions about them.

Thanks for the replies! It probably is way too far in the future to worry about now, I guess buying our first home just puts my thoughts on raising a family. I’m still learning how a lot of things work over here. I did a graduate degree in Edinburgh, but am still confused about pre-university schooling here. I didn’t realise catchment areas could change. Are these revised yearly? What happens if all the local schools are oversubscribed? I read elsewhere on the board that being in the catchment area is no guarantee of a place; then are some students left without a place at any school nearby? I haven’t looked into the primary schools too much, but there seems to be several nearby all rated ‘good’...not sure what criteria they use and why, but I guess as long as it’s a decent primary that’s enough?

Catchment areas can change.
School admissions criteria (the rules that decide who gets places) can change
The quality and the popularity of schools can change.

...and you don't even have children yet!

Don't take Ofsted as gospel either. Their idea of good or outstanding may be different to yours.

Your child is guaranteed a place somewhere. Though it may not be at your preferred school. You do hear of people in admissions black spots, but these tend to be in London or other big cities. I suspect you'll be fine.

Honestly wouldn’t worry about it but basically it works like this:

Schools don’t actually have catchments. What you see is the distance the last child who was offered a place lived, under the distance criteria.
There is often a number of different criteria in admissions, distance being nearly the last one.
Normally it’s:
Ehcp (special needs) kids, looked after kids
Then
Social/medical- you need to prove that’s the only school that can meet your child’s specific social medical needs
Then
Siblings/ kids of staff at the school
Then
Distance
If they’re an academy they sometimes do banding tests and accept say 20% low attainers, 50% middle attainers, 30% high attainers.
The way it’ll work is you put down your preferences and say preference 1 is down the road School the admissions team will go down this list and if you meet any of the criteria you get down the road School. They go down the list like this until they see a school that you’re eligible for. If there are none on your list they will allocate you one.

This is very dependent on how many kids are in that year, what banding your child falls into, how popular the school is that year etc etc if it so happens that the school isn’t or many local kids are choosing private, they move further down the distance list until all their places are allocated.

I can only highlight what’s been said above, schools change SO MUCH. There is a school local to us that 10 years ago parents wouldn’t touch with a barge pole and sent their kids private, now it’s highly highly oversubscribed and gets results similar to the private. Last year they had 1900 applicants for 243. This is in an area with lots of different schools. Their property prices have shot up because of this school. This is not an unusual scenario. Changing to an academy often means the school is trying to fix their reputation and get more control of things.

The fact they change so much also means it’s really not worth moving for a school so far in advance. The good school could turn into a horrible one and vice versa. This is a very

Sorry, very big difference to American schools from what I’ve seen. They often stay pretty static in their reputation as they rely on AP exams and graduation rates which is higher in well off areas.

You are bist guaranteed a place at your catchment school unless in Scotland (which you won't be)

Catchment is a priority area or admissions, but distance is the normal tiebreaker - so the criteria would be something like 'siblings in catchment, other catchment, other siblings, all other' So it is still possible to get a place, especially if you are prepared to stick it out on the waiting list for a while.

There are a lot of military families in the area you mention, so a lot of coming and going. Vacancies will come up, but only you can decide if your DC can cope with starting one school and then changing, or if one move is enough.

"Schools don’t actually have catchments."

This is not necessarily true. Some schools don't. But an increasing number do, so that the school is more likely to serve the local area, taking nearby DC ahead of distant siblings.

Just to confuse the op although not in North York's but other areas do still have true catchment areas!

You need to look at the individual admission criteria of your local schools. It is too early to look at secondary schools, probably when your eldest would be in year 3 in case you do decide you need to move house.

Are you buying a new-build which is a one-off/small development or in a larger development? If the latter, that of itself will have a huge impact on school catchments/school performance as you'll have a large number of people who buy when they have no/small children and then there will be large number of children to get into the schools.

Thanks for all the replies. This is far more complicated than I realized! I spent some time reading about the different types of schools- it's so confusing! But it is good to know that I haven't made some grave mistake picking the house in the location we did since things can easily change. It seems like the decision whether to move will be way down the line and a problem for another day!

It is a big military area, and there is a lot of development recently and many families coming and going. So there is certainly a lot that can change.

GU24Mum: The house is on a small development of only 20 houses, but the same developer has an approved site for about 60 more houses a few miles away.

What about all the religiously affiliated schools? It seems like all the primary schools near me have religious affiliations- I am not really religious, but if it's a good school academically I don't have a strong objection to a religious school. Can anybody apply to these schools?

Anybody can apply to a religiously affiliated school, but they quite often have admissions criteria that prioritise those who actively follow that religion e.g. they may require you to attend church regularly, or have a letter from your priest. Hence, by happy coincidence, some people "find religion" just at the time they need to be proving regular attendance to get their child a place at a perceived better school.

It seems like all the primary schools near me have religious affiliations

If a large percentage are religious then it isn't so much of a problem because all the children have to go somewhere! Thus the 'religious' schools will be full of allsorts.
It's more of a problem if there aren't many religious places because then they can enforce their admission criteria.

There is a secondary school near me that was ofsted 'excellent' for years. The headmaster changed and it is now rated 'requires improvement' Hopefully by the time my DC needs to go to school there it will be back to excellent or at least good. My son is currently 2, so I'm not too worried. My point being that things change - so you may move to near an excellent school or an inadequate one but by the time your future children are ready to go to school, the situation may be very different than now!

Religious schools - Catholic Schools often have strict criteria. C of E can be similar BUT lots actually don't select on religion - it's a bit complicated but you need to look at individual schools and their entrance criteria, and ask about your chances and what has happened in the past.
All schools in the UK are supposed to be broadly Christian unless they have another religious affiliation (Jewish, Muslim, Sikh etc.). And some C of E schools can be less Christian than some non-religious ones (and I know a close to 100% Muslim, C of E school).

In Richmond there used to be 3 Primaries one each of Catholic, C of E and Methodist.

You may already have had a look here, but information about the admissions process, current admissions criteria etc are on your local authority's website
www.northyorks.gov.uk/find-school

How much being or not being within the official catchment area for a given school matters will vary from year to year.The number of potential / actual applicants within any category will fluctuate; some years, the 'last child in' may be in the 'any other applicants' category, in others, there may be e.g. more siblings than usual applying for places. Or a cult may set up shop in a local manor house and their DC account for all the 'baptised members of other faiths' category for a faith school and 'any others' not get a look in. But as pp have said, it will be more than a decade before you will be looking at secondary schools and still a few years before you need to think about primary.

Our local high schools have very defined catchment areas.
The high school my DD goes to hasn’t admitted an out of catchment child for 4 years (excepting of course those who have sen and looked after children) my friend moved out of catchment and couldn’t get her dc2 in even though her dc1 already goes there as siblings are below catchment in the admissions criteria.
Saying that 15 years ago the school had the worst reputation and you couldn’t have paid me to send my child there, now it’s in the top 10% performing schools in England.

I know the area you are in. I am surprised they are saying the secondary schools are oversubscribed. There has been more of an issue with falling rolls in the Dales more widely. Is it Richmond High School and SFX you were looking at?

Hi Ovienna,
Yes those are the two I was looking at. The only place I've seen them say oversubscribed was on Rightmove- but maybe that's not accurate? I was also surprised because I thought being in a less populous area it wouldn't be a problem, but that could be wrong.

I really don't know too much about them. I was just put off as we went to view a house and the vendor happened to be a teacher at a school in Wensleydale. I asked him about the local schools and he said his children went to SFX and that it was quite good. I don't recall what he said about the Richmond school, but he said he 'wouldn't touch Risedale with a bargepole'! Again, I really don't know too much about them, but on the schoolguide.co.uk website it seems like Risedale (the secondary school on Catterick Garrison) is underperforming (although still rated as good by Ofsted).

I really haven't a clue about the primary schools! Since you know the area, does Catterick Village seem like a good place to be buying? I only know 2 local people really (3 including my husband!) and both have told me it is a nice area and have lived there or are living there now. But they also don't have children, so I hadn't though about that in as much detail when house hunting, as I hadn't understood this whole thing about catchment areas...

@Miramonte Is it ok if I PM you?

Sure!