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Original poster

Does anyone understand the Oxford University undergraduate system?

67 replies

KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 09:19

...specifically the exam system?

Are collections the same as exams elsewhere? Why are they at the start of term and not the end?

Are they set and marked by individual tutors? Or does everyone reading eg first year French sit the same exam on the same day? Or is it only those in the same college?

Why would a student have no collections because their tutor was on leave?

What happens if you fail your collections? eg in other unis you have to do resits or you can't go on to the next year

OP posts:
ungratefuldaughter · 30/05/2007 14:16

anyone who can understand the oxford admissions procedure certainly deserves a place

Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 15:09

its not that she's "missing" - we hear from her regularly, get texts and emails and we call her every week. Its just that we have no idea if what she's telling us is the truth & we're aware we have been deceived before. It seems there are several possibilities:

  1. she has dropped out and doesn't want to tell us so we will keep supporting her

  2. she is repeating first year because she didn't do well enough . This woudl explain where the money went and why she can still use all the uni facilities ect. But I don't know under what circumstances this is allowed??

Can you just repeat a year because you were to busy partying or does there have to be a welfare reason? That woudl explain the story about nursing her dying grandmother etc

  1. she is having a genuine year out. We wouldn't mind as long as she hadn't conned us out of ££3 to pay for it. But in that case why can't she get a job or sign on? Why is she still using college email?

Obviously we are hoping that she will go back in October, but we have told her that we will only pay her fees and battles direct and pay her other money monthly. This of course has not been well received, but i am so fed up being lied to and worrying about what is really going on

OP posts:
Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 16:17

gooseyloosey - yes, she says she intends to go back in October. However she has the whole summer already planned and none of it involves studying (or working) so we are slightly sceptical

we are not aware of any drug or alcohol problem, apart from the usual student stuff. But i suspect we wouldnt know anyway..

She does, however, have a very good social life and is involved in lots of student "events". Another reason we are a little suspicious that she is on a "year out"

Does anyone know how we coudl find out the exam diet for her subject? Surely that must be in the public domain and not "confidential"???

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Judy1234 · 30/05/2007 17:10

Pity you didn't just turn up at the warden's party and act as if she were redoing year 1 and speak to people teaching her who might have let that slip if that's the explanation.

Yes, pay bills direct. I pay the children's fees and we go on line (it's not Oxford) and I pay direct by credit card. I also pay the one who's renting direct to her landlord by standing order.

gess · 30/05/2007 17:46

Katie- someone on my course was rusticated for a year then had to redo prelims. he didn't have to attend the course again though, just sit the exam.

Could you ring the bursar to arrange about paying fees direct, that would give you more information maybe?

Judy1234 · 30/05/2007 17:50

That's interesting because I've called Bristol before now to ask about fees or deposits and what's included and just said I'm the mother of XYZ and this is their student number and they just dealt with me. They didn't say if you are not the student we will not even tell you if the student is on the course although she might here have told all the authorities not to say anything to you.

hatwoman · 30/05/2007 18:16

KM - re the email - don;t read too much into this. I have just been at uni doing a Masters - my email wasn;t cut off until 6 months after I had finished. Different unis will have different policies on this and I don't think it will help uncover the reality of what's going on. ditto the use of libraries - she may officially have access or she may just be using a college library that doesn't bother with security - ie you don;t need a card to physically get in (not sure if they still exist but they certianly did a few years ago). and the same for college events and social life - these will be entirely organised by undergrads and being able to participate will tell you little about her status.

re exams the exam regulations are here. This deals with the public exams that you have to pass - collections are entirely a college affair - like school exams - up to each college what they set and how they deal with failure (though, as otehrs have said they tend to follow a similar system)

a good place to get general info on exams and regulations is the University Offices in Wellington Square - I assume they won;t be able to tell you anything at all about your dd, but they should be able to explain, or tell you how to find out about university regulations, and things like rustication. A member of the univeristy is also subject to college rules hwoever, which will vary. so some aspects might be college specific. look here and here.

Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 21:29

Thank you all for your advice . The links were very helpful, I have been trawling through the regulations.

Xenia - we don't live in england, so it would be rather a long way to go for a tea party. Otherwise it would have been a good idea!

I really appreciate the MN support, I was a little worried I woudl be met with the "Its none of your business" approach. Which, if she were independent and self funding, would indeed be correct! As you can imagine, we are constantly hearing that she is an adult, we should respect that etc etc. Of course, it's closely followed by " I need £5k next week "

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Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 21:32

xenia, forgot to say, we went for the straightforward approach, called her tutor, said we were worried and were told " I can't discuss anything with you without her permission". Will try the more off hand calling the bursar re fees I think

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Judy1234 · 30/05/2007 21:49

Yes, I've watched some very good videos showing "blaggers" in action - people who call and ask for information on all kinds of things and it's amazing what people will give out.

Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 22:05

clearly i don't have this useful skill

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Lulabell · 30/05/2007 22:25

Hi KatieMorag,

I spotted this and just thought I'd suggest something. I'm just about to finish off at Cambridge, which is a slightly different system but often similar. Anyway, all our exam results are published publicly, and I think are then archived in the university reporter or something. I dont know if that's the case in Oxford but if it is you could see if you could look her up and find out how she did last year. That may tell you whether she's had to retake a year.

Also, here it's possible to 'degrade' for the year, which just means retaking the year, but generally this option isnt available after you've sat your exams, you have to ask to do it before hand. If it's any help, I would have loved to have taken a year out, it's hideously stressful, but I didnt want to admit to my parents that I was finding it too hard. I also suspect I'm about to do less well in my finals than they are expecting and dread to think what their reaction will be. If I'm rational about it, I suspect probably not that bad, but your DD may just be worried about what you'll say.

Erm, sorry that was a bit rambling, but hopefully you'll get the gist

Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 22:44

thank you lulabelle, that is very helpful, i will search the archives as you suggest. Good luck with your finals

OP posts:
Ladymuck · 30/05/2007 22:55

Have you tried phoning the Porter's Lodge - they may let something slip that your tutor wouldn't.

IME it is very rare for students to be able to take a year out other than in very rare circumstances. Do you know the results of her First Public Exams (prelims/mods)? Or is she sitting a subject where who wouldn't have sat them yet?

choosyfloosy · 30/05/2007 23:05

And it may be worth ringing the College Nurse. I'm a secretary at a GP practice in Oxford which registers students from 3 colleges - each College has a practice it is normally linked with. The College Nurses often know a lot if someone's having any sort of trouble. Of course they shouldn't tell you much, but if they know you haven't been told anything and are worried, if they do see your dd, they could say that they know you are concerned and feel in the dark.

you could also write to the GP concerned to say that you don't know anything and are concerned about your dd - again, they can't tell you a lot, but may try to get in touch with her (our practice might write to her and ask her to drop in to check all is well etc).

Worrying (and expensive) situation - hth

Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 23:09

she had mods during first year and said she passed them. but i cant find the results online so that may not be true

how would you get to take a year out, i mean what reasons would be acceptable? i assume too much partying is not one of them?

sorry caps key acting up again

OP posts:
choosyfloosy · 30/05/2007 23:13

I type a lot of letters for students who are having a year out because of variants of stress and depression?

Sometimes I wonder how many students are actually left in College, I seem to type so many of them.

Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 23:18

so this might explain the "dying granny" story that her school friends have been hearing? Surely if she was given a year out because of bereavement/stress, they would contact the family or at least the home GP to check it was true? Can you really get a year out if you tell the practice nurse that you are stressed?

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Ladymuck · 30/05/2007 23:19

I know one who took a year out to get over an eating disorder, and one who had ME (eventually graduated but 8 years later than expected). Usually it is financialy prohibitive to take a year out, and actually it should be possible to drift through to a third class (or at worst a pass degree).

Have you tried contacting the relevant faculty out of interest?

If she sat mods (rather than prelims) then these would have been classified (ie first, second, third). The results are publicly available so you should be able to get these from the university offices in Wellington square (they would have been published in college and in the faculty, but that is of little use if you are overseas!)

bookwormmum · 30/05/2007 23:23

I didn't go to Oxford (I wish!) but I imagine if a student could give a reason why they wanted to take a year out and they'd thought it through, then it would be granted (albeit unwillingly). Generally tutors prefer you to stick it out as you can forget a lot in a year and get out of the habit of academic thinking. At my university, students classified as 'special needs' (which were fairly limited in range) were allowed to resit years with no penalties provided they'd followed the correct procedures in requesting any specific help they needed. Anyone else who flunked a year or part of a year, plus resits had to retake the year without tuition which obviously made it even harder for them to catch up . I think as hard as it sounds, you'll have to wait for your daughter to say what she's been up to as Oxford probably aren't allowed to say due to confidentiality issues. What about your LEA? Do they still write to you to tell you your contributions towards her living costs? That might give you a clue as to whether she's studying or not.

Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 23:24

this is SOOO helpful...what are the costs of taking a year out? Do you have to pay fees? ( we have already given her ££ for fees and she said she spent it)

I will phone the university office tomorrow and ask for the exam results for first year

i have never contacted the faculty and don't even understand its role vis a vis the college and the university

OP posts:
bookwormmum · 30/05/2007 23:25

Oops just read that you live overseas so ignore the bit about the LEA .

Ellbell · 30/05/2007 23:25

KatieMorag, I am so sorry that you are having this worry with your dd. I am a lecturer and have in the past refused to talk to a parent, but this was only when the parent in question actually admitted that he was contacting me behind his son's back as the son had expressly asked him not to do so . And it wasn't a life and death issue.

Here (not Oxford, sorry) if you fail your first year exams you get the chance to resit in August (and therefore go into year 2 as planned), and then, if you also fail in August, you can have one final attempt the following May/June. In the meantime you have to take a year out (you can't repeat the year in the sense of attending classes) and just come back to sit the exams. I have no idea if Oxford might operate a similar system, but it's vaguely possible.

We did have a situation this year where a particular student registered but attended no classes at all after the second week of September! We assumed he'd withdrawn (after several zillion emails and letters) and about a month ago I had a phone call from his dad, who was totally unaware of the situation. The father was convinced that the son had been attending classes all along, and that the letter he'd received (at his home address, finally) saying that we were considering him withdrawn was all a huge mistake. So it does happen.

But I really hope that your dd is OK. I think you need to try to get some straight answers from her. What would happen if you told her that you would no longer support her financially until she told you exactly what she was doing, where she was living and what the situation was with her course? Alternatively, ring around her college till you find someone who is willing to talk to you...

Thinking of you.

Ellbell · 30/05/2007 23:26

PS She would pay fees if she was actually repeating the year and attending classes. But if she was actually 'sitting out the year and waiting to re-do the exams' she shouldn't pay fees.

hatwoman · 30/05/2007 23:32

KM - another approach might be to write to her. asking her questions over the phone isn;t producing teh reassurance and/or info you would like, and it might seem to her intrusive and nosy. she;s young, struggling to be independent - she needs to know exactly why you are concerned and she needs to know she can't throw your concern back at you and say it's about money, or whatever kind of thing 20 years olds do/say about their parents. the bottom line is she probably geniunely doesn;t "get it". I certainly hadn;t an inkling of what it was like to be a parent and to love and care for someone as much as we all do. why don;t you take your time and compose a letter to her - tell her how desperately you care, that the only thing you want is for her to be happy and safe, that you are always there for her. tell her that there isn't an instruction book on how to be a good parent to a young adult but you're doing your best. tell her you respect her privacy but you'd really like to think she could trust you and share her life with you, simply because you want to help and be there for her.