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Original poster

Does anyone understand the Oxford University undergraduate system?

67 replies

KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 09:19

...specifically the exam system?

Are collections the same as exams elsewhere? Why are they at the start of term and not the end?

Are they set and marked by individual tutors? Or does everyone reading eg first year French sit the same exam on the same day? Or is it only those in the same college?

Why would a student have no collections because their tutor was on leave?

What happens if you fail your collections? eg in other unis you have to do resits or you can't go on to the next year

OP posts:
Hadassah · 30/05/2007 09:31

Katie - the arrangements vary a little from college to college and from tutor to tutor. I was at Worcester. Collections do not count towards the degree, so if a person fails, it does not mean they cannot continue to the next term, necessarily, but the matter will be looked into by the tutors so the student can be helped. When I asked why they were at the start of term, I was told that this ensured that students did not come back for next term having forgotten everything. It worked for me, and I still enjoyed the breaks! Colleges make timetables of their own depending on what is practical for them, so several subjects can be on at the same time, if the college has space. My subject tutors set the collections, but in some subjects it's faculty staff that set for the entire year. If there is no collection because the tutor is on leave, I would say that it is likely that the tutor sets it, and perhaps doesn't want students stressing about the result until they cme back from leave and mark. Finally, nobody ever fails collections It's only failing mods or prelims (end of first year in most subjects, middle of second in a few others) that is serious.

Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 09:40

thnaks hadassah, that very helpful . Do all subjects have mods or prelims? We have a DD at Oxford and she has never mentioned them which makes me very

We just get told, " Oh i didnt do very well in my collections but it doesnt matter" or " i dont have the results yet because my tutor is on leave"

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Oenophile · 30/05/2007 09:40

I'm interested in this too as my daughter's off there in October (grades permitting) but I found a bit of a dearth of info when I searched.

I did find this on the Oxford Wiki under Collection:

'At Colleges of the University of Oxford, a Collection may be one of two things:

An examination taken at the beginning of term by undergraduates, testing the work done in the previous term, and usually taking the form of a past paper (typically a three-hour exam). Undergraduates normally take two courses per term, so sit two Collections. Collections are College affairs, not part of the University examinations, and so do not count towards degree results.
A Penal Collection might be set if an undergraduate has failed to work hard enough. Failure to achieve a minimum mark set in advance may result in the student's being rusticated for a set period, or even being ?sent down? ? that is, permanently expelled from the College.
A meeting, usually with the Head of House of the College, at which reports of the term's work are read, or (especially for postgraduates) the student's progress is discussed. These are sometimes known as ?hand-shaking?, or ?Principal's (Master's/Warden's/Presidents', etc.) Collections?. '

There are more links on the site about Honour Moderations and so on, worth a dig around

Oxford University Wiki

Hope this helps

Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 09:48

great link, oenophile

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Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 09:51

Hadassah - can you please explain what being rusticated involves? Is it like taking a year out or repeating a year? Would you still live in college and have college privileges? Do you have to pay fees and matriculate? ( I have specific reason for asking BTW, not just curiosity!!)

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gess · 30/05/2007 10:11

Usually if you're rusticated you have to go away for a year, in practice people hang around (but you wouldn't have a room in college). It's like being suspended, have no idea about fees and things. Being sent down is the same as being expelled.

Collections vary from college to college. I didn't have any in the whole 3 years I was there (tutor didn't like marking them) just prelims then finals. A lot of subjects have mods rather than prelims. At times an individual student might be told they have to pass a set of collections to avoid being rusticated or sent down- this happened to a friend of mine (he did pass them), but usually they're fairly meaningless.

gess · 30/05/2007 10:12

oh just read the wikipaedia thing and it said it all anyway!

Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 10:18

wew are very concerned about our DD.

she seemed to get through first year ok, although she didn't do much work as she met a BF in Oxford (not a student). Then, half way through second year, she told us she had decided to take a year out and had spent the money we gave her for fees and maintenance for second year ( about £4,500)

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Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 10:22

sorry posted too soon - keyboard acting up

however she still had access to college email and library etc. wouldnt tell us where she was living . suspect with bf and claimimg benefit

we then dicovered she had penal collections at start of second year. we dont know if she sat them

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gess · 30/05/2007 10:45

Oh dear, I can see why you're concerned. I would try talking to her tutor if you want to find out more tbh. I guess she's an adult and the tutor may be bound by confidentiality be he/she I'm sure would know the most about her and would I guess share whatever they were able to.

Judy1234 · 30/05/2007 10:46

You might be able to contact the college authorities to ask them the position. There are some interesting issues about what they will tell parents and what they won't - given the "child" is an adult. One parent wasn't told their daughter was seriously ill because of confidentiality reasons which is not good - they are at the between child and adult stage. I have 3 at university and whenever I've called the university which hasn't been often they've been helpful. They also know parents pay so there is a bit of a relationship because of that. If she's going back in October all could be well to restart the second year. It must be worrying.

Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 10:58

we have tried and they have refused to tell us anything, as she is an adult

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gess · 30/05/2007 11:00

Oh that's a shame. Do you know any of her friends from college?

Oenophile · 30/05/2007 11:20

Poor Katie

They ARE a worry, aren't they. My elder daughter has given us a few problems in her time and it never seems to stop really, I'm alway worrying about either one DD or the other. To think I used to think the toddler stage would be the worst of it It's worse during the teen/YA years because the urge to mother and protect is still there in us but often the child is no longer in reach in the same way and can be very secretive.

Good luck, I hope things turn out OK, keep us posted.

Judy1234 · 30/05/2007 11:22

Well she owes you the money back if she's completely opted out and isn't going back for a start. If she has a job she could pay back by staged instalments may be. Not that being hard with her is always necessarily the best way.

Nightynight · 30/05/2007 11:32

Katie, another pitfall to watch out for is how the finals are marked.
Find out if the marks are added up directly, or if they add marks squared.
I am not sure if the latter system went out years ago, or if they still use it.

basically, they will be far more impressed if you show your genius by doing 2 questions perfectly, than if you show your mediocrity by doing 6 questions badly. This reflects the way men often study (mostly in the bar/on the river, studying a small number of topics in detail) rather than the way women often study (conscientiously trying to cover the whole syllabus, without realising that it is simply too big, and you cant).

Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 13:00

xenia you are right of course. no she hasnt got a job, she says she is studying??? and she says she can't sign on as the benefits agency say she is still a student.So she has spent all the money on living expenses

so is she on a "year out" or has she been "rusticated"? To confuse things further, we just got an invitation in the post from her collge inviting us to the warden's tea party (cant remember the exact phrase). I phoned up to ask why we had received this as DD was on a year out and they just said " oh sorry it was a mistake"

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Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 13:06

we only know the names of her friends from college, i'm sure if we tried to contact them it woudl get back to her and make things worse

we have been asking her friends fom school and she has been telling them all kinds of stories, we don't know what to believe

she told them that she is taking a year out to get over the death of her grandmother; that she missed most of third term because she had to leave college and nurse her dying grandmother and that she then had a breakdown over it all. This only has a slight resemblance to the truth

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Original poster
KatieMorag · 30/05/2007 13:20

Dh and I both have post grad degrees so we understand the university system in general, but not oxford, which seems very different. I suspect we are being treated like mushrooms. I am alternately and worried.As you say, oenophile, it seems to get worse as they get older

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GooseyLoosey · 30/05/2007 13:26

As I recall, rustication is a penalty imposed by the Univeristy and derives from having to love outside the city for the period of the ban (clearly no longer enfroceable). It sounds to me like she is just taking a year out.

If she wasn't very happy at Oxford a year away may be just the thing she needs. It can be a very insular little world and little things can lose their perspective. Stepping back and looking at things from outside can really help some people.

Have you talked to her about whether she really intends to go back?

GooseyLoosey · 30/05/2007 13:26

oops - that would be "live" outside

ungratefuldaughter · 30/05/2007 13:55

the forms DS filled in when he started at university last year (not oxford) included a section where he could sign to say I could be given information about him where necessary which they said would be useful if he was ill or had major problems

Judy1234 · 30/05/2007 14:00

How difficult for you. Can't you just go down there and find her?

Of course she can get a job. Plenty of students do even whilst studying, never mind on years out. Presumably she'll run out of money soon and be in touch for more so don't give it until things are clear etc. Has she any other problems like drugs or drink?

You need to find out if she's busily now catching up on 1st year work so as to get back in October for a repeat of the second year or not. May be she's scared to tell you she isn't going back ever? I wouldn't be very happy if any of my 3 dropped out but I hope they'd tell me.

Judy1234 · 30/05/2007 14:01

ugd, that's useful. I think the case I remembered the girl was virtually dead from eating disorders but her parents weren't allowed to be told which as ridiculous.

ungratefuldaughter · 30/05/2007 14:13

maybe it could come back to bite us as perhaps it would include if there was any fines or debts

I was also impressed that the university had hall wardens covering those who rented houses in the town to make sure students behaved acceptably (bins out on right day, not too much noise, car parking) but it is a big uni in a small town