Can you be a leftie and use private schools? Are people prejudiced against the privately educated?

[SpoonsAndForks]

I've always been into equality of opportunity and on that basis, think that it's wrong that our country allows private schools.

But then my son's state primary went into special measures and I pulled him out and put him into private school. Now he's being offered a really great scholarship to stay on and I'm considering going private all the way. So I'd rather private schools didn't exist but now they do, yes I'd like my child to benefit from them.

I came across this book yesterday - www.amazon.co.uk/Posh-Boys-English-Schools-Britain/dp/1786073838/?tag=mumsnetforum-21 - the intro to the book sets out the 'public schoolboy' as the most horrible creature, misogynistic, egotistical, generally a posh hawhawhaw uncaring horror (usually a nasty MP). Yet the intro also sets out some interesting statistics about those in top jobs always being from private school (which makes me want to give my child that opportunity). But makes me sick at the thought of educating my child into a guffawing posh MP.

I'm keen to explore:

• whether you can sit politically to the left and square it with yourself if you use a private school
• whether children who go to private schools will experience judgement and prejudice against them
• whether children who go to private schools are all at risk of turning into posh uncaring brash misogynistic MP types.

Privately educated pupils make less progress at university than state educated pupils
Proof?
I absolutely disagree with your statement.

Longitudinal studies in the U.K. come down extremely clearly in favour of privately educated pupils and life outcomes.

www.theguardian.com/education/2010/jul/23/state-school-pupils-better-university THEsonofaBITCH

Snore.... if I see one more poster drone on about Finland or Scandinavia. Finland is small and has an overwhelmingly homogenous population. Their starting point is quite different from the UK’s. In Stockholm/Copenhagen there are now many challenges with different languages spoken amongst other things and there has been a flight away from “immigrant” schools.

It seems state school pupils have more potential
Mousse That's quite a generalisation but then I'd be very surprised if you had anything good to say about privately educated people.

No, I don’t think you can be a lefty and use private schools. If you do, you indicate by your actions that you approve and actively support something right wing. So you can’t be left wing unless you are a champagne socialist.

Why don’t you consider that actually, both the left and the right have useful contributions and sit in the centre. And also consider that we don’t live in an ideal world and that we all do our best.

Even if all privates were abolished, the best state schools would end up surrounded exclusively by £1m+ properties. Thereby making them private by stealth.

Even if all privates were abolished, the best state schools would end up surrounded exclusively by £1m+ properties. Thereby making them private by stealth. That does happen though in parts of London.

I really don't think there's the need for private schools in London. There are some excellent state ones. However, I suppose the demand from the currently privately educated potential pupils would push some of our DC out of the best ones...(which I wouldn't be in favour of).

Dapplegrey you know a lot about what I think. Yesterday, you knew I thought all conservative governments were toxic until I gave examples of non toxic right wing administrations. Today, I dislike all public school pupils. People are not responsible for the school their parents sent them to so why would I judge people on that basis? I have worked with many privately educated people some were nice and some weren't like most groups of people.

NewModelArmyMayhem18 thank you for providing the link. There have been several similar reports that have been widely reported in the press.

Sorry if the facts are boring you but the Scandinavian and Finnish education systems are some of the best in the world.

How about Canada? Slightly smaller % of privately educated pupils but the state system is excellent much better than ours across the board.

The Netherlands? Better than us, very small number of privately educated pupils.

Do you want many more examples - I believe New Zealand - has excellent education but I can't draw private school comparisons because their system is slightly more complicated.

Many education systems provide better all round education across the board.

All the countries I have mentioned educate the whole population better than us.

Private education just taps into the very British 'class thing', I think. It's the fear of having to fraternise with normal folk, EVEN THOUGH, in London there are very many children with similar socio-economic profiles in the state sector. Also, for some, I reckon there's a sense that a private education buys 'class'. Not sure that is necessarily true TBQH.

I would like to think that youngsters educated in the state sector are more likely to be 'civic' minded, and have more of an insight into the day to day struggles that most families/children have to face. I don't actually know that many people educated privately (for all that I come from an academically bright, professional family background) but the few that I do seem to live in 'ivory towers' totally divorced from reality.

Entirely anecdotally some people who went to grammar or private school seem terrified of 'the masses'. Saying they can't let their children go to state school because they are like zoos.

The vast majority of state schools are nothing like the hell holes of their fevered imaginations. My dc went to state school, were on top set and so had very little to do with the more 'challenging' students. However, they knew them, were friends with them and were able to develop empathy for them. That's a life skill I'm glad my children have.

That is not to say you can't do that at private school it is just a lot more difficult and unlikely.

“Bear pit”
“Thrown to the wolves”
“Dregs”

All terms I have seen on here more than once. But I think people are alsways inclined to believe the scary hype of barbed wire and a policeman permanently in each form room. I know from experience that it takes nerve to overcome one’s own and others’ prejudices.

Why does anyone want their children to become 'social workers' at school and acquire empathy towards other peoples problems ! School is for learning not for political doctrine nor manipulation .

Personally speaking the longer you can keep your children living in an 'ivory' tower the better. Children who are 13 don't need to know how shit the world is unless they are used as tool for the left to manipulate.

Why does anyone want their children to become 'social workers' at school and acquire empathy towards other peoples problems! It's not even that, it's understanding people (of all backgrounds). Surely that's a life skill?

Unless you think music exams are life skills?

Er yes- they are? My privately educated son's degree is in music.

They may see a bit more of how different people live and learn not to say things like this before they get to 18: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/what_would_you_do/a3314633-dd-friend-made-her-ashamed-to-live-on-a-council-estate

Empathy is an important social and conversational skill these days.
There's rather a long way between that and acting as a Home Start worker for a school friend's family!

"Become a social worker" is along way from what I said which was "develop empathy".

I suppose it depends how you define education. I want my children to pass exams and develop empathy and work as part of a team and learn how to help others. I don't think there are all mutually exclusive.

Soft skills learnt in childhood are incredibly valuable.

I do think music exams are a life skill, or at least, lead to the acquiring of a skill which provides pleasure for the rest of the musician's life.
Have you ever met anyone who said I passed grade 8 and I wish I couldn't play the piano?
Anyway music exams aren't the sole preserve of private schools.

Music is very valuable my apologies Lass and I think it is being neglected in the state sector. I was suggesting that on a UCAS application wider life skills are as important as a grade 4 in violin.

Different skills both equally valuable.

Music exams are life skills, even if you don't want to go on to become a musician.
Grade 8 is the starting point, it shows you are able to study at that level but that alone doesn't make a musician, from the professions pov.
It can look good on uni applications along with DOE awards.

"It can look good on uni applications along with DOE awards"
Unless you are applying for a degree with an element of music then music exams are completely irrelevant to university entrance. Apart fro in some cases adding a point or two. DofE rightly makes no difference at all.

I've heard parents say this is why their dc have taken music exams, they can stack up quite a lot of points if they do theory too.

As for DOE I heard the same, obviously no points but looks like the child has done whatever skills they have gained there.I think they seem to think it will help their application.

Mine has just started DOE through Scouts, i believe. She may have that wrong though

us.abrsm.org/en/our-exams/information-and-regulations/exam-regulation-and-ucas-points/

The point is in middle class schools (private and state) DofE and music exams are common place.

I would say a student helping to bring up younger siblings, working to supplement family income or caring for a relative are significantly more valuable skills.

One set of skills earns UCAS points and the other set of skills is easily overlooked but if you wanted to employ someone which are really more valuable?

We ignore the life experiences of less fortunate students so our precious middle class little princes and princesses get the good places at uni.

Our education system rewards the middle classes and fails the less fortunate.

I would say a student helping to bring up younger siblings, working to supplement family income or caring for a relative are significantly more valuable skills.

Those are not academically 'examinable' skills and do not indicate whether a student will be successful with academic work ! What they indicate is skill set of coping with adversity . However, that is something completely different to academic ability.