Should I push capable but lazy ds?

[SemiAquaticEggLayingMammal]

Ds1 is 13. Bright and capable but a bit lazy and likes to do the bare minimum required to get acceptable grades/be well thought of by his teachers and peers.

I've just had his end of year 8 report and it's pretty good. Mostly B's with a smattering of A's, in both effort and achievement. He should be pleased with how he's doing, it shows he's got the brains to succeed even with minimum effort. However I can't help but think of what he could do with more effort! I know that the B's in effort are actually D's in terms of what he could do- some of the stuff he turns in is so far below what I know he could do/time it has taken/thought that has gone into it.

He is a very happy teen, but I am wondering whether I should push him a bit harder to get the better results that I know he is absolutely capable of. But at what cost? I dont want to make his whole life about school. Equally I wish someone had pushed me at his age and had higher expectations because I was EXACTLY the same! And if I do give him a bit of a push, just how exactly?! Its not like I know enough myself to extend his learning.

Any thoughts?

I was a very very lazy teenager. I think the best thing you can do is help him develop a concrete mental roadmap of how to get to wherever he wants to get in terms of a future. What motivates him? If he wants to be rich, how is he going to make that happen? If he wants freedom to be creative how is he going to make that happen? If he is competitive what would he like to compete in? If he is focused on socialising how does he see his social life looking when he is an adult and how is that going to happen?

If he knows what he wants he will put the effort in to achieve it if he has a concrete idea of what the effort required is. And if he wants something that doesn't require a tonne of academic effort at this phase of his life and he understands and is clear about that - great, he thought it through and can apply himself elsewhere. If it does... well now he knows.

I don’t disagree DieAntword. He decided following a few weeks work experience from year 9 upwards that he didn’t want to go to university and wanted to focus on the other things he needed to pass the assessment for entrance into his chosen career. This meant being very fit, being able to do fast arithmetic calculations of speed/ distance/ time, essay writing in a traditional way and asking psychometric testing. We supported those in a variety of ways too but still insisted on higher academic grades than necessary so he had fall back options should he fail selection (a very real possibility since he was only 17 and competing with graduates in their late 20s).
It was seeing where he wanted to get from work experience that allowed him to tolerate thevpushing/cajoling/pulling/stretching.

Same here OP, year 9 DS, very able but prefers gaming, he chose his GCSE's last year so has been studying the subjects for a year already, he's doing very well but not putting any effort in, I do worry that it will catch up with him as the work gets harder so I've told him after the summer holidays I'll start limiting computer time and I'll want him to push that little bit more, I'm not going to be a tyrant but I do want him to achieve his potential

CherryPavlova it’s not like coasting a few Bs instead of getting all A**s is going to ruin your life (or whatever the new numbers are for that). Even losers like me who got a C and 2 Ds at A Level have plenty of options.

DieAntword, yes you do have some (but many fewer) options with C and Ds. High grades means you have a genuine choice at 18 years. If you get 43 points at IB, for example, you can do most courses at most universities. That is not the case with C,D,D.

With those 43 points you can still choose to be an electrician, hairdresser, bus driver or hotel receptionist but you can also study law, medicine, PPE at a good university.
It might well ruin your life if you want to be a Vet but don’t realise that until you are halfway through your gap year!

Ok vet and doctor are scratched off the list but honestly they were never going to be options. I actually considered doctor in my early teens, realised how much work was involved and being lazy decided it wasn’t for me. Anything that laziness is an impediment for is really not going to be a goer for a person like me and that’s regardless of whether for a couple of years I could have forced myself into working a bit harder to get better grades.

Although even with my a levels if one wasn’t lazy one could go on a post graduate conversion to medicine assuming suitable results at degree level. There is no point where pulling yourself together at a later point can’t get you where you want to go assuming you don’t get yourself a bunch of financial or location commitments (aka relationships/kids) before going for it.

And it’s not like you’re stuck doing hairdressing with Cs good god! I started 3 university courses on the back of my crappy A Levels. One in medicinal and biological chemistry, one in history (as a mature student so my chemistry, physics and biology a levels were not considered one way or another) and one in computer science (transfer from history after the second year because I was bored of history).

Parents put too much pressure on themselves and their offspring off the back of the belief if you don’t do it now it’s hopeless. I knew kids who sincerely considered suicide over not getting a full house of A grades when it’s really not the end of the world. At worst you lose on status, not the potential do do things. There’s always a way if you really want to do something.

DieAntword - part of the parenting is about teaching resilience too. If they’d struggle to get As because of innate ability fine but not because of laziness. I think early and sustained effort pays off - although you’re clearly a high achiever regardless. That said, starting courses is not quite the same as finishing, is it? What degree did you end up with?

My point is you should never be stuck with second best because you couldn’t be bothered. If you want to be hairdresser then I don’t see that as stuck with anything - assuming it was a free choice because you had grades to do other things.

Luckily there are sometimes options for ‘catching up’ but if you do a first degree in arts subject then you go onto do an access course and then medicine, it’s going to be a long time paying back the loans or earning decent money. Depends what’s important. We wanted our children to have choices about work, salary, property ladder, where they lived. Academic success is the most proven route towards this.

Lazy son is now 22 years old. Drives a new Mercedes sports car (he loves cars) owns a two bedroom flat in the South East and goes on very nice holidays with his girlfriend who he can subsidise as she’s still a student. He believes we were right to insist on growing and supporting a work ethic. He is, amusingly, now intolerant of laziness. Life is about choices and I think parents have an obligation to give their children choices at 18.

Ended up with computer science and a diphe in history. I was probably best at the first course really but I got homesick and was stuck in moss side where someone tried to rape me and then I got mugged and I kind of thought screw thhis I’m just going home at that point.

I only finished compsci to prove I could finish something though. Although one and only one module on that course is the one and only time i believe I’ve ever felt genuinely intellectually (rather than in terms of dealing with anxiety or self discipline or my god awful organisational skills) challenged - it was quantum computing. Ran by the physics dept and technically masters level. I got a c in that class as I’ve got many many Cs before but I’m actually proud of that c because I genuinely worked for it which is more than I can say for anything else in my academic life. Was brilliant, got to try our hand at writing our own quantum algorithms.

Other than that (which I really enjoyed) and learning about category theory and constructivist mathematical philosophy (which is awesome) the whole thing was a bit of a waste for me. It’s embarrassing to say but the best thing I got out of uni was my Mrs.

Don’t get me wrong I want to teach my kids to have a work ethic. Don’t want them to be lazy like me. But I don’t care if they apply it outside academic work rather than inside if that’s where their ambition lies. Every door we go through closes others. Potential is lost through actualisation etc. Can’t keep options open forever and if you’re going to specialise it’s in many ways better to do so early (not like me who couldn’t specialise her way out of a paper bag).

If they want to be a professor or even a research assistant getting good grades will be very important - they want to go to a top university in order to network with the people they’ll need to be writing research proposals to. If they want to be a process engineer they need good enough to get on a course but any uni will do because there’s a shortage and industrial placements are easy to come by. If they want to be a luthier they need lots of skills (not just luthiery but product design, buisness and marketing too) but their grades are going to be more or less irellevant.

DS1 only put his foot on the accelerator at Easter a month before his GCSEs started then he worked like a Trojan throughout. I think a lot of capable boys are like this

Ive coached kids, and the trouble with the pushed ones, is that the second the parental pressure drops, they Sack it off. And they have no idea how to self motivate. Because they have never had to.

I was branded clever but lazy (actually undiagnosed SpLD, but thats rarer nowadays). All I can say is I’ve had to learn to care, learn to be motivated. And I am. But it came from within.

And I’d be wary of pushing too hard. I think there is a mental health timebomb in that age group. There’s discussions on the AMA thread with an admissions tutor. It is getting worse year on year, and no reason why it won’t continue.

See we agree DieAntword - our son applied his late developing work ethic outside the usual university to city pathway. He ended up with a degree by default and will get a masters but never actually ‘went’ to university. The thing is it was a genuine choice as he could have done a science or maths course at RG or probably got into a performing arts course but he was able to,follow his dream because we wouldn’t let him fail.

I think you should push. My in laws were totally relaxed and as a result DH got lazy. He won a scholarship at a top private school 2 miles from their home but didn't want to go as his friends were at the local (shitty) comp. They let him choose. He failed a year at A levels because he discovered beer and girls. He eventually got a degree aged 40 (third attempt) with the OU because I was doing one and after watching me do three years of studying, he decided to join in.

I have a report from his first attempt at uni, when he was 19, where he was getting merits but failed on lack of attendance. Pretty much sums up his academic life. One of the cleverest people I have ever met but just was too distracted by partying to complete anything.

We sometimes think about what would his life have been like now if his parents had pushed him and, due to this, we would definitely (gently but firmly) push our kids.