Admissions and Appeals for Primary Schools

[cjones9812]

Hello

Looking for advice regarding admissions and appeals process. Recently applied for a place at a primary school that is 1.1 miles from home and out of catchment. We did not get in but during the admissions process we became aware of admin errors form the admissions team. We raised this in our appeal and asked them to kindly look into these errors to ensure that they have been addressed and to confirm that the admissions team acted in line with the 'Code' for admissions and lawful and further to that, to ensure that our application was not at a disadvantage because of these errors. However when we received the outcome letter it only mentioned the errors by saying that ' the school representative stated if the admissions team had made errors they would rectify them'. However this does not answer any of our questions and although they have not upheld our appeal we are non the wiser about out the errors and whether they acted in line with code what impact it had on our application. Any Advice please? Surely this cannot be acceptable as it seems that our concerns have been disregarded and therefore our application in its entirety.

but they cant confirm how the error happened

But the error wasn't anything to do with you. They certainly shouldn't be telling you anything about another child's application!

Is the only error you’re referring to the situation with the twin? As others have explained, it may not be an error, and if it was, it has been corrected. What information would you expect to be given about how that situation arose, and how do you think that would make a difference to your appeal?

The 2nd twin did not take a place that your child should have got. So whatever the error was it has no bearing on your case.

Childcare costs are neither here nor there. Of course everyone would prefer a school with cheaper childcare costs and they can’t admit everyone into those schools just because the parents want to save money!!!!
PAN isn’t just plucked out of the air, it’s decided on things like square footage per child, ability to fit x amount t of table and chairs in a classroom, how many toilets there are etc. There’s a minimum amount that’s required by law. You can’t fit 30 kids into a space designed for 25 for example.
To win an appeal you need to prove that an error occurred that disadvantaged YOUR child, which from what you said it didn’t, or prove that the School is the ONLY one that can cater for your school
Examples being
Only School that has not stairs for a wheelchair bound child
Other schools have children of families you deal with in a professional capacity eg police officer or social worker
The school has a special needs unit and not other school does
The school is the only one in the area to provide harp lessons and your child performs for England or something.

but they cant confirm how the error happened

Even if there was an error (which is not clear from the information you have posted) it did not affect you. They cannot tell you anything about another child's application. It is none of your business.

I don't know if the error had an impact on my child or others

Yes you do. If there was an error it was failing to admit the second twin initially. Neither that error (if it happened) or admitting the second twin had any impact on you or anyone else. There is no way that you or anyone else could have got priority over the twin.

If an error occurs in a process and you are part of it, you are entitled to find out what the error was , how it happened and whether other applications were impacted. It is my business because I was part of the process and therefore I would like to know and have confirmation that no other application was affected. I,.e if the error was a computer issue and it miscalculated distances and that only became apparent because a twin was affected which brought an error to light then Initially I thought that one twin was 27 and the other was 28 and then I could somewhat understand how the error could have occurred. However the twins weren't 27 and 28 , they were lower down the line so what happened for one of them to get 'missed'? So yes, it is my business to check that they have done their jobs properly and what happened and whether any other applicant got missed or included due to their administration. So I cannot say at this stage whether my son was disadvantaged by the errors because admissions will not elaborate and give it to me or have been skirting the issue. If this error had not happened to a set of twins, the error would never have come to light. I hope you see my point now.

You sound extremely entitled and I think the admissions team don't want to waste time on nosey clutching at straws requests. I get the impression you'd be secretly pleased if the 2nd twin's place was withdrawn.

If an error occurs in a process and you are part of it, you are entitled to find out what the error was , how it happened and whether other applications were impacted

You are entitled to find out if you were impacted. That is all. Anything else could be a breach of data protection.

I cannot say at this stage whether my son was disadvantaged by the errors because admissions will not elaborate and give it to me or have been skirting the issue

The problem is that you don't want to accept what you are being told. You were not disadvantaged. When one twin was admitted the second should have been admitted automatically. If there was an error (and it is still not clear that there was) it is that the second twin was overlooked. That is nothing to do with distances. It is a straightforward administrative error. I'm afraid you are clutching at straws.

But we keep coming back to the same point. Did the error impact on your application and nothing you have said gives any indication that it had or could have done. So I don't believe you have any further avenue to pursue. I've asked repeatedly if you felt your application was mishandled - were you put in the wrong category for example - something of that nature could have been an error that had a material impact on your application. You really need to disassociate the twin error and your application - based on what you've told us.
How do you feel about the allocated school and are you being positive about this with your son?

I think you are not getting my point at all . The only relevance of the twins now is that the error has only come to light because twins were affected. If the 2nd twin that got missed had not been a twin and the mother would have received a letter saying sorry you have not been accepted into the school then she would not have thought anything more of it ( as she was out of catchment anyway) and she would have most likely accepted the decision or appealed forming whatever argument she decided to put forward ( it wouldn't have been an error argument though because she would not have known about it). The only reason it came to light was because one got in and one didn't. And this was not because one was 27 and one was 28 as it has been confirmed that they were further down the line they were not 27 and 28. So my point is, the twins error only came to light because they were a twin and the mother could question and say ' hang on, how have you accepted one and not the other'. Its not a question of not wanting to accept what they say because that would mean that they had provided me with some information for me not to accept and as stated all they said was an error occurred during administration and we have rectified it. We replied with, is this because one twin was 27 and the other was 28 ( no names, addresses or other data discussed to breach data protection) ? They reply no that was not the case but we have now rectified the error. That , for me, is not acceptable and I would like to know what the error is and that this error did not have an impact on other applications.

and no I wouldn't be secretly pleased if the twins place was withdrawn I work in the private sector (very different to the council) and I cant get my head round how errors can occur in what is supposed to be a transparent and fair process but when information is requested it is all cloak and dagger. I came onto the forum to get the information I had initially asked the admissions and appeals and to discuss openly about the process so I could fully understand it. If I were at work and an error occurred we would look into this error and inform our stakeholders what went wrong and who it impacted, seems its quite different in the public sector.

Ok. A few things

1. The twin was entitled to a place during the usual admissions allocation progress. The LA have to rectify that error now it has come to light.

1. It will have impacted your application in as much as you will have to wait for 2 children to reject places before one place can be offered as the school can only admit up to PAN unless an error has been made ie the twin or in some other instances none of which apply to you.

1. Reasonable - This is legally reasonable not dictionary. Ie the decision made was so legally perverse and unreasonable that no reasonable person could have made it. This does not apply to you. It is fair. You just didn't get what you wanted.

1. If you disagree with the outcome of the appeal you can take it further. The best outcome for you is a re hearing of your appeal but as procedurally there was nothing wrong with how your application was administered this is highly likely to be fruitless. Your other option is to apply for a judicial review. If you have a spare 25k go ahead. Yours will be refused as it's groundless.

Having to pay for child care is not an appeal winner.

It's not your local school. You have a place else where. Probably at your local school.

My advice? Stay on the waiting list. Sometimes places come up mid year but this will mean up rooting your child from their current school so think very carefully before you do this.

Lastly, let it go. You didn't get what you wanted. Badgering admissions is a waste of time.

Going off topic here but have you put your child on the waiting list? A lot of things can happen between now and September and if your child is high on the waiting list then you still have a chance of getting them in later on. So this other school may only be temporary.

Cross post

It's only cloak and dagger because the error affected another family - not yours. I'm not sure why you're not getting that?

In all likelihood, the system flagged up two applications with the same address, surname and date of birth and threw up an error as this was looked like a duplicate application, and someone manually clicked the 'yes duplicate' button, rather than the 'no multiple birth' button. So an error which didn't affect you!

You still aren't getting the point that this error could not possibly have affected you. If the first twin was legitimately entitled to a place (and nothing you have said suggests they weren't) so was the second. Your child was not deprived of a place. An error is only relevant to you if it affected your child. This didn't. And there is nothing "cloak and dagger" about complying with data protection requirements. They cannot tell you what went wrong with another child's application.