Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Original poster

If Stiener Schools are so good why doesn't the state sector embrace it's principles

57 replies

hebetalbot · 25/05/2007 10:58

Have no opinion either way at the moment as I don't know enough about their principles. But it niggles me that if it was that good wouldn't every school be doing it ?

OP posts:
gess · 25/05/2007 11:00

I think they do in Germany!

Original poster
hebetalbot · 25/05/2007 11:04

Does that mean that they don't start formal education until 7 or is there a bit more to it than that? (sorry very ignorant

OP posts:
McDreamy · 25/05/2007 11:05

Just started another thread on Steiner schools! Has got me thinking too!!

FioFio · 25/05/2007 11:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Piffle · 25/05/2007 11:06

I'm from the Montessori camp and several schools are being given govt backing to use it's methods....

Ladymuck · 25/05/2007 11:12

Not that straightforward though is it - you have to look at why the state is interested in providing education. And it is for a mixture of reasons:-

a) to provide an equipped workforce for the future;
b) to provide social care to children, ensuring that every child is equipped with certain basic skills and concepts (because parents can't alwasy be trusted to do this properly!)
c) to provide childcare for the current workforce
d) to enable each child to develop their own potential as a human being, to be able to contribute towards the whole human conversation and to encourage lifelong learning and development.

In some respects these can be conflicting priorities, so Government is forced to prioritise between them. What is in the interest of society as a whole isn't alwasy in the interest of the individual, and we can't always have individual choice is what we pick and choose (though I'm personally gratweful for the private sector). Persoannly my own aspirirations for a school would be to concentrate on d) whilst keeping in mind a), but I accept that the Government has different priorities.

Original poster
hebetalbot · 25/05/2007 11:14

Well, I just heard melinda messinger on this morning talking about the fact that delaying learning to read and concentrating on thw whole child led to better GCSE passes.

OP posts:
SSSandy2 · 25/05/2007 11:15

They don't in Germany gess. There are Steiner schools here of course but the ordinary state sector doesn't have anything much to do with Steiner philosophy/methods as far as I can see.

McDreamy · 25/05/2007 11:15

I thought Melinda Messenger came across really well. She clearly is very passionate about her choice.

MrsSoupdragon · 25/05/2007 11:16

"c) to provide childcare for the current workforce "

I don't think that is a reason at all!

Ladymuck · 25/05/2007 11:21

Certainly not the way it has evolved (now that women are allowed to do more than just cleaning jobs), but it was one of the earlier reasons, and in some respects still lingers (all the talk about wraparound care etc).

MrsSoupdragon · 25/05/2007 11:24

They always seem to be making the point that is is about education not free childcare though.

Ladymuck · 25/05/2007 11:32

But that childcare issue is one of the key reasons why they would never adopt a "wait until they're 7 before former schooling" policy - even if it did lead to better GCSE results. They know that an awful lot of mothers will return somehow to the workforce when their children are at school.

Ladymuck · 25/05/2007 11:32

formal schooling

Ladymuck · 25/05/2007 11:33

Is MrsSoupdragon a close relative of Soupy?

MrsSoupdragon · 25/05/2007 11:39

Very close relative. Couldn't get closer in fact

MrsSoupdragon · 25/05/2007 11:41

I think it would be more a case of them not adopting the "start at 7" thing because of the uproar it would cause amongst parents rather than specifically because they feel they should be providing childcare IYSWIM.

fennel · 25/05/2007 11:54

You get very mixed views on whether Steiner schools are "so good". I know people whose children have gone and some of the parents love it, some think it's been an utter disaster.

I went to a Steiner school open day recently, and I was quite turned off, came away very glad that we didn't have to use it. My 5yo was with me and was aghast at the idea she wouldn't be taught to read til 7 at this school. I know the arguments about teaching reading later but if you happen to have a child who does take to reading well at a young age, it can be such a positive thing. In Steiner schools they wouldn't get that chance.

fennel · 25/05/2007 11:58

The bit I really didn't like about our Steiner experience was our singing workshop. we went into a yurt (fine, I like yurts) and sang songs first to the strong male god Sun (with lots of drumming), and then we put our drums away and got "tinkly, feminine" instruments. We then sang a tinkly gentle song to Mother Earth. My 5yo dd2 was reminded, several times, that she was banging too loudly for the feminine gentle song.

I thought we were quite lentilly types, I went expecting to like it, but really, I'm not that keen for my children to learn such a load of old codswallop. Also am not keen on the message my feisty daughter was getting about gender roles.

frances5 · 25/05/2007 13:58

Prehaps people have different ideas of what a good education is. Personally I would not go near a steiner school. The religious side of Steiner school be a problem for me. Just because it would not be right for us does not mean that its not right for other people.

I think its a pity that there are vouchers for private schools like you get for nursery. The one size fits all approach of the national curriculum is not right for every child.

mumblechum · 25/05/2007 14:14

The only thing I know about S.schools is that my friend is having to withdraw her 13 year old as he's only able to studycombined science (and he's a science boffin) and learns no languages whatever.

Sounds to me like a very second rate system if you want your child to receive a decent chance of getting a well paid job.

frances5 · 25/05/2007 16:28

Our local steiner school gets good results and I am sure they offer a good range of subjects. Certainly people I know who send their children there have been happy with it.

Prehaps there are good steiner schools and bad steiner schools. Saying that all Steiner schools are good or all Steiner schools are bad is a bit like saying that all schools that follow the national curriculum are bad. British state school vary a lot in their style and I sure Steiner schools must do a bit.

I think that education is an art rather than a science.

TheodoresMummy · 26/05/2007 22:33

I have looked into Steiner Schools a fair bit over the last 6 months or so and have def got the impression that the quality depends from schools to school (just like state or prep or whatever else).

I agree about the reading thing and I would be worried about holding the child back as much as I would be about pushing them too early.

I think that much of the philosophy is almost there, but still a little too rigid in it's own way.

Fennel - I too went to an open day at our 'local' Steiner School, but was a little disappointed. Did you see their artwork ? I know I have said this before, but I found it reeeeally spooky how it all looked the same. It made me question just how respectful of the individual they really are...?

TheodoresMummy · 26/05/2007 22:36

Find that bit about 'no languages' very strange. All the Steiner Schools websites I have looked at (many) say that they teach french and german from a young age. Some teach spanish too.

mimsum · 27/05/2007 13:54

"I found it reeeeally spooky how it all looked the same. It made me question just how respectful of the individual they really are...?" (sorry, don't know how to quote)

ime they're not at all respectful of the individual - our local Steiner was much, much more rigid and dogmatic than the large state primary that ds1 went to in the end

what they have managed to do is get very good, very vague PR so that the general impression is of schools that are arty, individual etc bit hippyish but nothing too scary

however, if you are seriously thinking about Steiner you should google "Steiner critics" which will come up with some eye-opening stuff ...