Pre-prep expressing serious concerns about admitting DS in September

[VivaRice]

Need some help/views.

We enrolled DS in a pre-prep to start school this September. We've now been to the welcoming session + school fair.

We were asked DS's nursery report. Because the report says DS still has problems expressing his needs/emotions verbally and sometimes refuses to follow rules, we also sent a copy of a psychological assessment we had done when DS was just 4 (4.5 now). The tests ruled out ADHD and put DS's fidgeting and hyperactivity down to anxiety.
DS's behaviour is much better now and I think in line with that of his peers. Having to drop the nap + nursery staff not enforcing boundaries had compounded problems.

After looking at these reports, the pre-prep called, then sent emails with words like "serious concern" "hope we can accommodate". As message exchanges build up the tone has gone from talking of support to having serious concerns. They have now organised to do a nursery visit in a week's time.

I don't think the pre-prep can easily get out of the contract we've already entered. We know if a teaching assistant is needed we'll have to pay for it. But as you can imagine it's not giving me great confidence DS is going to feel welcome in his new environment.

Do I do anything other than wait and see? I didn't enter the state school system because our 2 catchment schools are well below average and parents who live close to better state schools are having great difficulty getting in those schools (mini baby boom it seems + many siblings) so really no chance for us. Do I start approaching other pre-preps? What do I tell them?

My husband and I were both educated in the state sector so we don't have a great understanding of how pre-preps operate. We read (past tense) the contract carefully before we signed and nothing was hinting at what is happening happening.

"It seems seeking help has created problems rather than solved them..."

You really need to realise that that this is just not true... you would be creating problems if you ignored/concealed his needs and put him in an environment where he would struggle, perhaps be utterly miserable, lose all confidence and get managed out in two years (which can be a huge blow to confidence in itself).

It is hard accepting your son might have SEN to deal with (I know!)... but you in a good position if something has been flagged up early to take steps to support him.

I think you need to visit those state schools near you, try and talk to some parents, possibly meet the SENCO if you can and trust in your own experience of your visit to help you choose. OFSTED etc. is not straightforward and a great school might not be rated Outstanding... but could be for your son.

If you call other preps etc. be as honest as possible and see what their responses are...

I am sorry you are experiencing this. If it's any consolation we considered private... ended up in state... and with a child who is very, very well suited to his school and properly supported.

Good luck!

I had a similar experience. My second son had various issues in nursery and our pre prep which has a sibling policy made some “is this right place for him noises”. In fact it was mostly during reception and in retrospect I think they were probably trying to manage us out but I was so focussed on him that I didn’t really notice. The things was, the people we were seeking help from all kept saying he needs to be in a small class etc etc which the school was so what was the point of moving him - I could see any environment which was better (except homeschooling and that didn’t seem to be a solution because I already knew I could teach him anything - it was group dynamic stuff he struggled with and I couldn’t teach that at home). I couldn’t get a place in the very few good state schools nearby and in any case wasn’t sure it would be possible to find a way back to the academic independent path I wanted for him from there

Reception wasn’t a great environment for him - independent reception tends to be less play led (at least around here) and more rigid so there were more issues with translations and not wriggling but once the syllabus became more focussed on actually learning (he could already read etc) and less on colouring even if you hate it, things got much easier for him.

Sorry, that wasn’t very coherent

Pop him on the waiting list for schools (state) that ARE good

Ask this pre-prep to helpfully give you a bullet point list of the behaviours, characteristics, traits, etc / examples of behaviors that are difficult to manage or different from most of his peers. This may prove to be invaluable to you. Hard to read but essential in identifying a possible SEN.

Apply to other prep schools but assume that state will work best. Ear to the ground now on how each state school is with SEN.

Good luck!

Really good advice from interesting days. And don’t panic - it is a long game with all small children especially ones that don’t follow standard pathways and plenty of time to tweak and tailor.

Usually they do a very through assessment before giving the place and even get them all working in a group to check for problems. Did they just put his name on a list without assessing him in detail?

Aslo if he behaved very differently from other children on the after the offers open morning what did he do? Did he go round thumping everyone or sit in a corner looking at the wall? I am surprised they asked for a nursery report - I wonder if they asked others for one? Some children don't go to any nursery before big school so I suppose in those cases they could not.

Some private schools are fantastic about inclusion and actually supporting children. Others are bloody awful. I wouldn’t send my child to this one.

You would be far better off looking for an alternative school rather than ignoring the red flags that this school does not want to accept your child.

It is appalling and hurtful, and I feel for you, but unless you want years of being made to feel very uncomfortable and unwelcome I would withdraw your application now.

I have had friends that have persevered anyway, and have been ostracised socially, let down terribly in terms of learning support (some schools simply do not offer this) and their child has had an awful time.

Some prep schools just want the most academically able, they are not able to support any other pupils. Horrendous I know, but better you know now.

Spend some time talking to other schools admissions team and source the right support for your child (if he may not need it) but just in case and one you feel comfortable and happy with.

sometimes refuses to follow rules

of course you do realise that other parents are paying to keep their children away from children like this...

I can't imagine any private school taking a child with this on their record. Thats the whole point of private schools. Thats what parents pay for, that is how they make their profit

Clairetree1, sadly you're right in that parents of privately educated children often believe that their children are entitled to being 'kept away from' 'children like this'. However, it is the law, in mainstream state and independent schools, to make Reasonable Adjustments for children who have special educational needs.

The awful assumption that SEN children's behaviour is somewhat contagious and to be kept away from only exacerbates their difficulties, creating isolation for both the children and their parents.

You do realise that your comment is being read by the OP and will inevitably be hurtful, don't you?

You do realise that your comment is being read by the OP and will inevitably be hurtful, don't you?

That and the question asking did he go around thumping others or did he sit and face a wall.

Ignorance on a grand scale.

So shockingly sad that discrimination on such a scale is clearly seem to some as acceptable - and children with needs are not.

Clairetree1

You don’t have any experience of the private sector, do you?

Why are determined to bulldoze your child into a school that clearly doesn't want him, and pay through the nose for the privilege?

There is a fundamental difference between state and private schools in this regard. Private schools don’t HAVE to educate anyone. There is no presumption of accommodation. It totally changes the school/parent dynamic.

Firstly, the fact they are visiting him at his Nursery is entirely normal. Schools usually visit all new entrants in their previous setting or at home. The fact he is being visited doesn't sound like singling out.

It is difficult for schools when new info emerged after an offer has been made.....so they made an offer based on info which suggested they could educate him and now new info is available, which if available at the time might have resulted in them not offering a place. That said, unless the new findings are significant and really mean they cannot educate him, they will have to make a start with it. Perhaps their messages are intended to push you to pull out, because they know they can't do it themselves - they would need to be very careful about the kind of comments put in writing in an email.

What kind of a pre-prep is this? Is it a large, well resourced, well known one, or perhaps a small, cheaper less well-set up one? The bigger more established pre-prep should have the ability to cope with a range of children and also to have had experience before and know exactly what they can and cannot say regarding additional needs. That said, they are also probably well tuned into managing out at various points. There are loads of small, often unprofessional pre preps around too - often the cheaper end, sometimes with seeming little knowledge of current methods of teaching or laws regarding additional needs. Some won't be geared up to provide for a range of children or even know what the rights of the child are or what they should and shouldn't be saying to parents.

I would say that very very good communication from you now is key - not just emails. You need to arrange a meeting and to go and have a proper conversation about it all, making clear what needs have emerged and asking for clear answers about their approach. It's really important to get onto this before schools finish.

And then you need to decide if you want your DC to go to this school. As they have offered a place, it is likely that if you want him to go there, he will be able to start in September. The question is though, do you feel confident they want to teach him and can do a good job- this is the main thing isn't it, rather than if they have the right to bin him before he's even arrived.

This is al very tricky at this point in time. Being very proactive over the next couple of weeks with both the school he's supposed to go to and perhaps one or two others is time which is absolutely going to be needed to get anything like a decent outcome here. Best of luck.

And yes, independent schools do have to make reasonable adjustments to meet needs, and are very aware of being had up for discrimination....which is why I'm surprised if they have put anything in writing which might be shown to be discriminatory. This is why it is likely that at this point, they won't withdraw the offer for September, but instead might make it blindingly obvious they don't want him. And which parents in that situation insist their child goes to the school which doesn't want him because it is their right in terms of contract? The school knows most parents just won't do that....and so they 'manage out' before he even starts.

However, this isn't definite - clear communication is needed to ascertain exactly what the school is saying and what their attitude is. Clear communication might reveal that the issues the boy has are pretty minor and the school is perfectly able to cope and happy to do so.....until you have those conversations in person, you just don't know. Do t rely on a couple of emails where sometimes people express themselves poorly or whatever to base significant decisions on. Arrange that meeting for the next couple of days.

Michael.., that's not correct. Although all private schools are selective (some on academic grounds), not all are 'as selective' as others ... and ALL are subject to the law:
Equality Act 2010
Code of Practice 2014 (updated 2015)
etc.

Lama.., every child is entitled to an education. Schools are not permitted to discriminate during the admission process, nor are they once a child is a pupil at the school.

Many parents at private / independent schools are unaware of the law (or of decent inclusive and moral attitudes), it seems. This is a real pity and influences schools' behaviour and decisions in schools where they are keen to have more bottoms on seats.

Have you had an up-to-date conversation with the current nursery staff? You mention waiting for your ds' end of year nursery report but how do the nursery view his behaviour now - can they reassure you and the pre-prep?

Interesting yes you are right and its high time that parents stood up to these schools however the reality is that no one is going to put their dc where they are not made to feel welcome particularly when they are vulnerable anyway.

I don't think interestingdays is correct:

From the ISC:
^SEND CODE OF PRACTICE AND THE CHILDREN AND FAMILIES ACT 2014
FAQS FOR INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS
Which independent school settings have to have regard to the Code of Practice?
It is only those independent schools that are on the section 41 list or relevant early years providers that must have regard to the Code of Practice.^

^I am a relevant early years provider. Am I bound by the duty to admit?
No. Only independent schools on the section 41 list are bound by the duty to admit.^

sometimes refuses to follow rules

Seriously he is a child, a very young one at that...does anybody really think all four year old in pre-prep religiously follow all rules.

OP it sounds horrendous. They will torture you. Drop them like a hot potato.

Although ISC membership schools clearly do admit dc with SEND - Table 23
www.isc.co.uk/research/annual-census/

Clavinova, that may well be the case re the Code and independent schools not listed under Section 41. However, the Equality Act certainly does hold.

You don’t have any experience of the private sector, do you? yes, many many years of it

OP, I have been in your position. I should have looked at the big red flag that was waved in my face at the very aggressive transition meeting where, after an hour of discussion of my son's needs and behaviour/issues (he sounds very similar to your DS), I said "I have listened to an hour of negativity about my son. This is not encouraging for us. Does anyone have anything positive to say about him?" The nursery SENCO eventually managed to say that he had a lot of friends and was very sociable. We should have pulled him out from starting reception at that point, but we had put our faith in the small class sizes and the fact that they had a dedicated learning support teacher. It was a horrible experience and we were 'required to remove' him halfway through reception. His self-esteem and confidence suffered badly from the way he was treated there. He is now at a state school, doing well, being properly supported, and a much happier boy.

This school does not want your son. For his sake, don't send him there.

ps this all sounds so familiar, are you in SE London, and does the school's name start with a V?