Term time holiday - teacher opinion

[gooddayhey]

Hi, I was just having a convo with one of my colleagues about how when my kids are old enough I might take them out of school during term time for a holiday. Obviously I have no idea if I ever would, it's a play by ear situ, I'll decide what's best at the time. Anyway, my colleague has very strong opinions about this, arguing that it's disrespectful when many people children do not even get the opportunity to attend school etc. And said I was treating school as a joke, amongst other things. One of the points she made is how disruptive it is for teachers and if she were teacher she would hate it. So I'm just looking for a teacher's opinion on this. I already know arguments for and against term time holidays from a parent point of view are mixed. I'm not strongly for or against either way but lean more towards parents being able to make sure the assessment themselves at the time. But do teachers find it annoying and do they notice children struggling when they come back one to week later for example?

Voiceleport

I'm not talking about chicken pox. My child has a lifelong serious health condition so will never achieve the awards.

However I know that the awards mean nothing for the individual children in the grand scheme of things so I'll be making sure he doesn't care too much about not getting them.

Calm down, avid. The last time I checked, all day every day wasn't just on a Thursday

What teachers are posting all day every day though?

Luckily on MN, all children are high achievers, so taking a week out of school will make no difference to them.

My children struggle academically. Missing a week of school at any time in secondary would be a real pain. First, both would struggle just being organised enough to find someone to catch up the work from. Then, as they find it hard to grasp stuff even from a teacher, it would be hard to understand it anyway.

Those of us on maternity leave 🙂

My baby is teething and will only sleep on me, so I have plenty of time to post.

But a child with a serious disability is unlikely to be playing on the netball team either - that doesn't mean that other children shouldn't be able to do so. There are all sorts of ways of recognising the achievements of all children in school, but in different ways. Actually, an attendance award can be a real boost for a child who is never going to win a sports match or do terribly well in a test - it might be the only time they ever get 100% in anything. But does that not matter to you if your child can't benefit from this particular type of recognition??

It does matter as I think being on the netball team is a worthy goal to aspire to but full attendance is not. I disagree that it is an 'achievement'.

There are many things I like to reward children for but the simple cirucumstance of being neurotypcial, healthy and having the luck not to fall ill isn't one of them.

And that hypothetical child who only ever got the attendance award - there could have been so many other things to praise about them.

Nope. Attendance is out of a child's control and therefore not something to take pride in. It's not an achievement. There are many things a child can achieve in school and attendance is not one of them.

I’m a high school teacher in Scotland (currently on maternity leave) and if you were to take them out aged 11-14 it would make no difference to me. Age 15-18 (S4-S6) would be different.

Taking them off school to go on holiday isn't as disruptive to their learning as being out of class regularly throughout the year (never ending orthadontist appointments for example).

I’m taking my primary kids out of school for 2 weeks in June this year since I’m on maternity leave. My DH doesn’t get to choose his time off and usually neither do I, so we’re taking advantage as this will be our only chance for a term time holiday. It’s cost us half what it would in the holidays!

But attendance is not out of a child's control!! If all of our non-attendance was due to genuine too-ill-to-be-in-school illness and genuine can't-change-the-appointment medical appointments, then we would immediately stop paying any attention to attendance, because it would be pointless - we would not be able to improve our figures and we would be unfair to try to do so. But that is patently not the case. Some of our absence is unauthorised holiday (which is where this thread started). Some of it is routine medical appointments (dentist, optician, GP etc) which could perfectly well be scheduled before or after school - but it suits parents better to have them at 10am so they don't have to get up early or miss ballet or whatever after school. And - lots of it is down to minor, non-specific illness that should not be keeping children out of school - 'he's got a bit of a tummy-ache', 'she's got a bit of a headache', 'he's a bit tired this morning, he had a busy weekend'. Now, obviously a lot of that is parents' fault for allowing children to miss school for these reasons. But it is also true that children absolutely milk this parental weakness by saying they've got a headache/tummy-ache whatever, give them the slightly pained, doe-eyed look, and buy themselves a couple of days off school. This happens a lot. So it's not surprising that schools try to motivate children to want to come to school as well as penalising parents for keeping them off. Now, I personally don't think that attendance awards work very well - I don't think children are generally that motivated by them - but I also understand why schools try them, and I don't think they should be criticised for doing so on the basis that they're 'unfair'.

Everything you've mentioned is a parenting issue.

I have no problem with it at all. The only thing that annoys me is when the parents ask for extra work to take away with them because
a) it's extra work for me.
b) without the context of the lesson, it's of no real benefit to the pupil.
c) in all my years of teaching, not once has it ever been returned anyway!

So go but do I ask the teacher for cover work is my advice.

Yes - but children can influence parental behaviour as well as the other way round.

GP appointments are like gold-dust you take what is offered. DD has a medical condition and required 6 appointments with various health professionals over the last 2 weeks - follow ups are routine appointments in 3 and 5 weeks time - you take what you are given.

Don't give a stuff about attendance awards - there are better things to aspire to than "turning up".

The head at my children's primary wouldn't even authorise a day off for my sister's wedding so I can't see that they would for a week away. They have finally got the school to being classed as Good and he's not going to let anything change that.

A Primary aged child should not make the decision as to whether they attend school or not. If they do, that is down to parenting.

VoiciLePort
..Yes, you might have to reduce the number of holidays in a year; save up and go every other year; drop a hotel star or two; go out of season; go for one week not two; go to Devon rather than Dubhai; or just prioritise your spending (maybe replace the Range Rover next year). Guess what? Teachers with families manage to do this.

You literally can't see why it might be easier for teachers with families rather than parents with limited or restricted leave to book their holidays in school holiday time...?!

VoiceLePort: unless Home Edding, school attendance is compulsory, unlike being in the netball team or orchestra. Attendance and the need for it sits equally with every child whatever their individual talents, interests and abilities. Why should disabled children be excluded from the possibility of an attendance award (when they of all kids can sometimes need to really battle to get there and be there) just because it’s ok to be excluded from netball?

Schools could, of course, exclude absences due to disability from counting against the attendance record, which would be a reasonable adjustment in terms of disability equality.

It's a thorny area though. A child with disabilities is likely to have genuine absences - but may also have 'fake' absences, like any other child. Which is why you have to consider all absences on their apparent merits. As I said, I don't think awards are a great solution. But schools have to do something to tackle poor attendance - as long as parents break attendance rules, and schools are judged on their attendance and results, then they will need to try to find a way to improve attendance.

As for teachers booking holidays being easier - yes and no. If they're married to non-teachers and want a whole family holiday - then not much difference. And the parents I know who take term time holidays almost exclusively do it because of cost, not the difficulty of booking.

"as long as parents break attendance rules, and schools are judged on their attendance and results, then they will need to try to find a way to improve attendance."

Real issues need real solutions, Teachers know who the persistent absentees are, and the school avoiders. Give them personal attendance targets and give them a star on the chart when the meet them.

Much better than geeing up the competitive mothers to force their kids into school with barely contained flu and 20 minutes after vomiting for fear of missing another certificate. yes, I know 2 mothers who did this and similar.

Give them personal attendance targets and give them a star on the chart when the meet them.

When I refer a family to education welfare they are asked to sign an attendance agreement. Attendance is reviewed regularly and if sufficient improvement is made, the case is closed. We don’t use star charts, however, as that would be patronising.

If they're married to non-teachers and want a whole family holiday - then not much difference.

Er. Well apart from the fact that you then have 2 non-teacher working parent work demands to fit around... which obviously is harder than 1 inflexible working pattern...

(no Easter holidays if you work in accounting, no Christmas or NY holidays if you work in acute heathcare, no summer holidays if you work in tourism or farming. Or plenty of other industries. Or no booking leave as the same time as other members of your team etc etc etc. Not 'we want to spend the money on a Range Rover' )