Gifted and talented

[katelyle]

I have no axe to grind here - my two are relentlessly average in all things (except attitude!) but could someone either give me a link or explain this gifted and talented thing?
And why have I never heard it mentioned at our school? Is it because of my aforementioned average children and is there a gifted and talented sub culture of which I know nothing?

probably!

G&T is basically a Government decision that the top 10% of every school be deemed gifted or talented (gifted refers to academic gifts, talented to things like music/art etc). I think they then get extra support. It's a bit of a nonsense, because a child can be deemed gifted and talented in one school, move school and be average, because it's all relative to other children.

Don't like it myself - think it panders to competitive parenting which is one of my bug bears.

At the school where I work the gifted and talented children are just registered - no extra support is offered except as teacher would normally attempt to challenge and stretch more able pupils. Can't see the point of the paperwork really.

Although think they have special activities at the local secondary for children who are deemed g and t.

Lots and lots of schools don't use the terminology overtly or talk about it to parents. Our school has to have a Gifted and Talented Register, but this fact is not widely advertised and I only know about it because I'm a governor. I don't know anyone who has been told that their child is on it.

There is also a G&T co-ordinator, but there are no specific lessons, workshops, given to the children on the list.

Ditto singersgirl. We don't hear anything about it either adn there is no literature on it.

Back in Feb, ds1 sat past Yr SATS papers (age 5 and in yr 1) and someone suggested to me it might have been to identify 'G&T' - only a very small group of them sat it.

His teacher is the G&T coordinator but she never mentions it.

It doesn't really matter anyway does it? Or do they identify them for funding purposes?

Yr 2 SATS papers obviously

i think you knwo if you are

Ds' school put him on the G&T register in foundation year, for Maths and English. In year 2 they get extra sessions with the Head, to work on different ways of looking at comprehension etc. Ds was also offered music lessons during school time.

However, his teacher this year (Year 1) did say that some children let early talent slip and others can then putstrip them. I think the idea of putting ds on it was to ensure that early promise was not allowed to fade away.

And I'm not smug about it. I am chuffed that they thought he was a bright boy. I hope he continues to show promise. However, I would be proud of him if he became a builder/dustman/milkman etc rather than a brain surgeon! I just want him to be happy in life and get as many doors open to him as poissible. Would never become a pushy mother though.

Also some G&T kids aren't just 'bright', they sometimes have other issues too, often social ones. Is just a helpful term, like any other under the SEN umbrella. I'm not fussed about it. Seems silly to pretend that some kids aren't super smart when they are, and for the staff to know that. Is parents that get silly about it imo.

Not offended! I try not to mention ds being on the list on MN, for obvious reasons! I just wanted to point out that some of us with 'bright' children are not pushy. I am really proud of ds, and want him to do well obviously, but would be proud of him whatever.

It is useful to identify children who are G and T because if they are not stretched, they get bored and end up failing. There is some argument to say that giftedness should be seen as special need - not so sure about that though!

My sister was a gifted child - serious Maths genius, reading aged 2 etc. but had a terrible time at school because she was thoroughly bored and no-one took the time to stimulate her.

I think our school is the same as Amateurmum's. There are lots of bright children, and some, by dint of test scores, may be on a register, but all of the most able children are supposedly given stretching work.

I know the head at our school dislikes the labelling and maintains that only a handful of really gifted children come through the school - and then they stand out a mile. The others (top 10% or not ) are just 'bright'. I'm inclined to agree.

But perhaps there is a G&T sub-culture of which I know nothing, having not been initiated by virtue of having 'average' children. However, DS2's Reception teacher last year said of his reading "I've never seen anything like it", and this year his Y1 teacher said "I've never come across a 5 year old like it", so I imagine he is demonstrating some unusual ability in some areas. But he is certainly not exceptional across the board and has not as far as I know been identified as G&T for anything.

sg, that's the view of most sensible teachers and parents. My children are probably in the top 10% got into very academic private schools, 3 at univiersity etc but no way are they gifted and talented even the older ones with 2 or 3 grade 8 music exams. They're just that normal sort of upper range, grammar school type of child. Then in their own schools occasionally there is someone I would call G&T. E.g my ex husband would occasionally find a brilliant music pupils, not just good but exceptional or you'll get some child who is just years ahead of everyone and I don't just mean 2 or 3 years ahead in spellings or reading which I think one of my twins might be but he's certainly gifted.

Those truly exceptional ones need to be identified in private and state schools and something done whether it's work with an older class, special programme, regime. What we don't want is the normal clever 10% in dreadful comps being told they have gifts. They don't. Let's instead restrain their ego but make sure the work they do in a normal class is hard enough.

'make sure the work they do in a normal class is hard enough' - couldn't agree more. In ds' class, there tends to be a large amount of time spent bringing the bottom half of the class onwards, while allowing the higher 50% to read on their own.

oh yes xenia don't whatever you do allow the children at dreadful comps feel they are anyway near as gifted and talented as grammar school children. that would never do.

If it's a proper comp then it will have as many clever children as any random group so 10% there will be like 100% of the children at the grammar/academic privates. It's just that they're educated with chidlren of all abilities (as it the case in many private schools which are not for particularly academic children).

If the comp streaming works then I suppose it's okay but isn't it more likely children will go to Oxford with AAA or indeed a top 20 university to do a proper subject if 99% of the school do? Don't we rub off stuff from our peers? If no one ever leaves school at 16 then you're not likely if you're easily led not very hard working to leave at 16. If most of the class do then you will.

DS1 is supposed to have extra 'gifted' provision as part of his statement (he has Tourette's Syndrome). In practice, it's fairly patchy - he'll sometimes get extra topic work or get taken out with a couple of other boys for extra maths stuff but a lot of the time he complains he's bored ... We only know about it cos a) it's obvious and b) because of his statement - I'm not sure if anyone else has been told their child is on a g&t register - it's certainly not a common topic of conversation in the playground

At our secondary school, they have always had a register but not told parents/pupils who was on it.
Able children are challenged/stretched anyway in lessons, the school is good at that. The only real 'clue' was when children were offered special activities/trips or residential sessions in different curriculum areas - this was what happened to my eldest.

However, since the government changed the rules somewhat this (or last?) year, the school now actually tells parents their children are on the register, and sends them a form to apply to join the National Assn for Gifted & Talented Youth. This is what happened to my second. But NAGTY won't let the top 10% from any school join, they ask for CAT scores, references etc.

I think the new thing about labelling the top so many percent in every school is supposed to help drive up standards everywhere. The idea is that even if the 'best' in one school would be frankly average in a better or more selective school, pushing the top ones in the first school would still lead to a better culture of achievement in that school and thus benefit the whole school. That's the theory!