School reports - at 4?

[KMG]

My son just got his first 'school report' - he was 5 this week, and attends nursery half days only. I was surprised how serious the report seemd to be. My son is not great socially and has some odd behaviours, and is generally a handful. But the report seemed to make a great deal of this, and include something negative in every section. I suppose the report was fair description in some ways, but it doesn't stess the positive. I would love to have a report I could show to friends, but it kind of makes him sound like a monster.

My son is very able 'academically' - reads fluently, composes and writes own stories, fantastic numeracy skills, etc. But this is barely mentioned: 'very good literacy skills' and 'can count to ten and beyond' (! Yeah, like to a thousand and beyond). A friend whose daughter is pretty slow 'academically' has a beautiful report, making everything sound as good as possible 'can count to ten' [but presumably no further], 'knows half her letters' [but doesn't know the rest, or sounds, isn't even beginning to read, etc.] Why didn't they put 'She ONLY knows half her letters', if they can be so negative about social skills ...?

I've always had full and frank discussions with teachers, and they feel we are on the same side. Do you think this is why she's been so brutal in his report? Or is this normal nowadays? Or is it because he's changing schools and they (and we)want the new school to have a full picture of him?

Or am I just being pathetic?

KMG, you are not pathetic. I think children are currently expected to learn too much too early. At nearly 5 they should be having fun IMHO. Nothing much else should be expected but the governments' policies have been to instigate early learning goals and ofsted reports for pre-schoolers and IMO we as parents have fallen for it. (i.e choosing a pre-school or playgroup on the basis of ofsted reports).

It saddens me that many pre-school teachers therefore (and let's face it, it doesn't take that high a level of intelligence to pass a diploma in pre-school practice/NVQ level 3 or whatever, sorry to any clever pre-school teachers out there) expect children to attain early learning goals at 4 and 5 and focus on the (supposedly) negative in reports in the way you describe.

I haven't had your experience but I'm irritated on your behalf that this is what current practice in many nurseries leads to: perfectly normal children, who behave like children, expected to conform to some ridiculous and constrained standard of how children 'should' behave and given negative reports when they don't.

I would talk to the teacher once you've calmed down and ask why they felt the need to be so negative. Maybe get a second opinion first: is it as critical as you feel it is to an impartial eye? Good luck.

The last school reports really annoyed me. I have 2 DSs at the same school but there are three years between them yet they both had many of the same statements in their reports. I think our school has a list of targets for the national curriculum that the children should meet and another list of statements which can be applied to these targets. These statements are then repeated parrot fashion in each report by whichever teacher completes it. Both reports said that DS had begun to gain better mouse control when using the computer. That is a joke, they have excellent mouse control because they have their own computer and have spent many hours playing games where mouse control is essential. I felt that the reports were so impersonal and wondered if the teacher had even thought about the child who's name was on the top of the sheet - it didn't appear so to me. In fact, as they were produced on the computer, it wouldn't surprise me if the teacher just changed the name at the top and left everything else the same! I don't take a lot of notice of the reports anymore but do make sure that I see the teacher face to face if I want to know about progress - at least she can't churn out the accepted responses then.

KMG, I understand how you feel. I have always taught in daycares since age 16 which was 16 years ago. I have written many reports on children with the same type of problem your ds has. One thing I will say is even if a child has a lot of odd behaviours or is not good socially you should never stress so much negative stuff on their report. Some teachers tend to put the most minor things down. Some things are ok because every parent needs to be aware of certain things especially serious behavour problems. I as a teacher in the past have had conferences with parents and explained many difficulties but I always have a positive thing to follow about their child. It is sad that they dont express these good qualities about your ds because he sounds like a bright child. I have had some kids that were truely a nightmare (from troubled homes) and was very very hard to stress a lot of positive things but we need to take time and really think of their good qualities along with the negative ones. No matter how a child is there is always some good things a child does. Sometimes teachers get so focused on the not so good stuff and are blind about the good things. Maybe not meaning to. Teachers do need to be as honest about a childs progress though so they can be prepared for grade school and so the parents can work on any problems that lie ahead but we have to also build their self esteem with good things. Hope things get better on the next report.

This reminds me of a phrase the reception class teacher used about my son, then aged five. We met for at a parent/teacher evening and yes, she also glossed over my son's good academic achievements and focussed on his less good behaviour. Anyway, the phrase she used was 'he hasn't got his head round the work ethic'. Poor little guy - what a criticsm to level at a 5 year old. I was secretly quite proud, in a way, that he hadn't!

KMG, I think the negative comments might show a teacher under pressure. I'm not a teacher, but I would think that is much easier to teach good children, whatever their academic ability. A more challenging child has the potential to disrupt the learning for the rest of the class because they naturally demand more attention. I agree with the others - set your mind at rest and talk to her.

Does the friend's daughtter go to the same school?

I used to be a secondary teacher, and frankly found the report writing tedious, but mainly because the parents on the whole didn't read them, the school always left it till the last minute, so we were forced to write hundreds of them with very little time. However, I always used to slave over them, because the child deserved it (ha ha - for good or bad!) - no only kidding, honest.

It did really annoy me that some teachers used to pretty much write the same thing for nearly everyone.

Phrases such as "Can count to ten" (ignoring how much the child can actually count to) would suggest a stock of saved phrases and lots of cut and pasting. It also worries me that the teacher concerned is not thinking beyond the minimum expectations of the child at this level. Does this also go for in the classroom, ie are the brighter children being stretched, or do they ride along, as they can do academically what is expected of them?

I would be very annoyed at any report which had an empasis on the negative.

I would definitely speak to the teacher involved and also consider raising the issue at a higher level - ie possibly the head, depending on what the teacher says, bacause this may be possibly encouraged (or enforced) from above.

Good luck

I am really torn here! I am a reception teacher, although I'm not working at the moment, and I can honestly say I have always given a great deal of care and attention to report writing (even though I loathe it!) and, TBH, think it would be a lot more productive to speak with the parents at parents' evening rather than spend that time ticking boxes. Also, I can only speak for myself here, but I do not find it better to have a class full of 'good' children, (whatever that means).

I feel that so much emphasis is placed on little children learning to read and write. This really scares me: I feel that young kids should be PLAYING and learning through that play. The fact that 4 year olds are 'tested' is truly frightening (I am not talking about assessment here where teachers can pick up on potential concerns and discuss these with parents) Why 'label' children so early? They should be having a good time and having fun. Although I hate to say this, I have met lots of parents who had 'bright' (ie could read and write at 4)children, who encouraged such testing because it gave them a certain kudos (sp?) amongst other parents. Horrible IMO

I think children are expected to leave their childhood behind at an increasingly early age which is so sad and perhaps explains why some kids have problems with social skills. KMG, I would make an appointment with your son's teacher: you are obviously upset and are not "being pathetic". I do have to admit here that I have seen some really awful reports written by colleagues which I would have been upset to read as a parent.

BTW, WWW, I did have to go to university for 4 years to teach

Oxocube, can I take you up on your point that you don't find it any easier to teach 'good'`children. I think if you find less well behaved children just as easy to teach, you must be a really good, well trained teacher. I wish you had been my son's reception teacher.

Talking to my older son's nursery workers and teachers in reception, year one and year two, one thing that was heavily implied, and sometimes clearly stated was this: his sometime 'bad' disruptive behaviour stopped others learning and the teacher was having to stop the flow of a lesson to give him individual attention. His year one teacher was the most outspoken about this. She told me she put him in a lower ability group, even though she thought he was able enough for a higher one, because his behavioiur meant he was not easy to teach. I felt uneasy about this at the time and still do - ability groups for nornal 5 year olds should not be measured on behaviour, surely?

Now in year 3 and at a different school, I have received far more positive comments and a lot less of the negative ones from his teachers. There's no implication that he poses them a great problem, even though they recognise that he's not the most focussed of children. I await his end of year report with more optimism than usual.

Tigermoth, I have just re-read my post and fear I may have come across as a smug know-it-all! Sorry!! What I meant about not wanting a class of 'good children' was that, sure it may be easier to teach a class where you have all the pupils' attention all of the time, where there are no discipline problems etc. but this would probably be a very boring scenario. I think back to some of the most interesting kids I have taught and I think that a lot of them were not 'easy' - they had problems maintaining attention, they were aggresive, disruptive etc.- but this is the challenge, and the reward, of the job.

Oxocube, I agree with you and sorry, no offence intended

Thank you all for your encouragement. I have already spoken to the teacher - I saw her when I first got the report: it seemed quite reasonable then, and a fair description of ds. It was just in retrospect that I thought it seemed to focus on the negative, and in comparison to his classmate's, that was so positive. Even the three sections which are largely positive end with a negative sentence, which seems such a shame.

I'm not saying my son isn't hard work - I find him very difficult at times, and that's with only one or two to look after, not twenty-six! It was just the shock of seeing it all down there in black-and-white. I kind of thought first report they might break us in gently, and just say mostly nice things..?

The teacher is a qualified teacher, and was teaching infants until last September, and is head of early years at school. But I've never really felt very comfortable with her, and have always been aware of making a huge effort to get on with her, and make sure we stay on the same side, rather than saying what I really think.

Anyway, what I have done is to make an appointment to chat with his playgroup leader - who is not a qualified teacher, but she's been doing the job for years, I have tremendous respect for her, and feel very comfortable talking to her. So I will get her take on how my son is, and my son's behaviour. (The nursery teacher said that my son was "not the worst child they've ever had in nursery, just the only one 'like that' at the moment [out of 52]" ... Sorry, was that meant to be encouraging?)

Tigermoth - I feel we've got a great deal in common - your advice and experience always seems right on the nail as far as my ds is concerned. Hope to continue learning from you in the months ahead ... Better get that subscription off, hadn't I?

Oxocube, it sounds like you are a great teacher. I'm glad you see the less well behaved chidren as a rewarding challenge. I bet with that attitude the children warm to you, too.

KMG, I never plucked up the courage to ask, or had any opportunity, to read the reports of my son's classmates. Had I done so, I'm sure I would have posted a similar message to you.

And also like you, I never felt on the same wavelength with my son's reception class teacher and went back to see his nursery teacher for reassurance. Until you mentioned this, I'd forgotten all about it. The rise in expectation between nursery and reception took me by surprise.

Can't guarantee you'll be able to learn anything directly from me, but if I keep posting news of my mistakes, you can learn from them!

KMG, Have just read your last post and am appalled at the statement your son's teacher made: that he was not "the worst" but "the worst at the moment". I am honestly not surprised you feel saddened and let down by this person.

I have taught some children who have been extremely difficult (some, at 4, have spat at me and told to f**k off), but I would never dream of telling a parent their child was the biggest problem I had in my class. I should also add that I taught recently at a rather posh International school, where the average child, and parent, was very different, but regardless, I think all parents deserve respect and time, as do all children.

This sounds a bit 'barfy'- sorry -its just something I feel very strongly about. Good luck KMG with your next meeting and I wouldn't worry too much about the negative comments from your son's current teacher. It sounds like she may benefit from a refresher course in people skills

KMG, you are not being pathetic, I think a lot of primary school teachers just can't be doing with boys.

My son, just coming to the end of Y4, is a bright and eager kid whose only criticism from teachers in the past, in KS1, has been that he is too quick to put his hand up (ie before he has heard the whole task) but is otherwise a joy to teach, always tries his hardest and does very well academically. He is a kind child too and I don't think has ever knowingly hurt another child.

At parents' evening last year (Y3) we heard a lot of whining about chattering, fidgetting and bringing too many gel pens into class. This year it was the same but more so. He is eager to please, hardworking and scores very well on tests but all this bloody woman was interested in was that he talks in class, fidgets and had pulled out somebody's chair as she went to sit down the day before I spoke to her. There are a few slimy little telltales (all female, sorry, mothers of DDs) in the class and in the choir who know they can get him into trouble with her and it works like a charm every time, apparently - doesn't occur to her to tell them to mind their own business. He has decided to leave the choir because of this.

The thread on teachers' presents amused me a lot - this cow is getting nothing! Our school seems to place a lot of emphasis now on children Being Quiet and prefers supply teachers who can provide Quietness to those who enthuse the kids. I am disgusted but what can I do.

Janh, I so agree with your message, but do have to say the worst class tell tale/winder upper my son encountered was a boy!

My fidgety restless boy (now aged 8) has had a year with a very enthusiastic NQT, a young man who has just written him a lovely report, concetrating on all the good things with a few mild suggestions for new targets. It turns out that my little monkey has been really working hard at school - I'm amazed. I think this teacher is so young he remembers what it's like!

Reading all these posts (and with a ds about to start school), it occurs to me to consider what the real point of reports is? (My ds already gets them from nursery, by the way.) Surely in an ideal world a school report should have two functions - to keep the parents informed about what positive things their child has achieved, and to draw attention to areas where the parents may be able to help their child improve. I have no objection to hearing what my child doesn't do so well at, if these comments also include either suggestions for how I can help or information on what the school or teacher are going to do to try to change things. There is no point whatsoever in saying something negative without suggesting how to change it (I wish people doing work performance reviews would remember that too ). I had some awful reports as a child that totally turned me off the subject (or teacher) concerned - which was a shame because basically I was a child who was eager to please, and a bit of positive input to any problem I had would have paid off big time.

Thanks for all your comments, suggestions, and support. I met today with his playgroup leader (he still does one morning and three lunches at playgroup). She said she sees him very much as an average boy - not particularly better or worse than many other boys - so that's a big relief.

Tigermoth - I never asked to see the friend's report - but was put in a position where it would have seemed rude to refuse. In future I think I would risk offence and decline to read another child's report. It is so hard to not compare your children with others, but in this situation I think it has been very unhelpful.

We are thrilled with ds's new school - I originally started this thread when he got his leaving report from nursery. I was called in 'for a chat' with the teacher today, after a difficult day - but the communication is brilliant - so much better than his nursery - and I used to take him into his nursery every day, and they never told me what was going on!

Anyway his new teacher mentioned that they haven't received anything from his old school, except the copy of the report which I gave them. And unprompted he commented that he thought a couple of the paragraphs were 'completely out of order and unnecessary'. So I was right to be shocked by the report.

In 6 days he seems to have got the measure of ds completely - he realises where he's coming from, more than his nursery teacher did after 12 months, and appreciates his good points, as well as coping with his bad points.

RE: learning too much too early.

My friend's son was in a nursery when he was 3 and they got tested on computer skills. I don't think that's wrong in a way but some of the kids didn't have them at home to keep up.

I've noticed you can get chunky keyboards now to connect with your computer but I'm not sure if not knowing how to print at 3 years old is something to be worried about! Do printers ever work anyway?!

It seemed a bit much to me.

I started this thread a year ago after receiving ds1's first report, and just can't resist telling you the difference - just as an encouragement to anyone who's had a bad report experience.

As many of you know we have been delighted with ds1's new school - he is a handful, but is very bright and loves to learn. His Yr1 report is simply fabulous:

There are only a couple of negative comments, and even they are phrased in a positive way. As expected he got high marks for academic stuff, but also high grades for effort, and loads of positive behaviour stuff too. His teacher even said it has been 'interesting and entertaining' teaching him.

I am over the moon - thrilled to bits.