should tackling and scrums be banned in under 18s rugby

[missyrogers]

hi all
i am a mature student currently writing my dissertation. i would really like to get some different perspectives on this topic. if you have a couple of minutes please could you complete the questionnaire by following this link

docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd9ATG0plbIP4K3GHHkg4eLFOgzOMm1IOVEAS9HBq8lqoAsGg/viewform?usp=sf_link

it is a topic i am very passionate about
many thanks in advance
Zoe

I think you need to take that document down and start again.
Most of the questions do not make sense
Some have grammatical errors that make them nonsensical
and others its really unclear what one is agreeing with.

FWIW my son plays rugby and he LOVES scrums and mauls
learning how to scrum early has reduced his injuries now he is built like a brick out house.

Personally, I think scrums are dangerous - I know two men (when over 18) who ended up with life changing injuries because of scrums.

The first - the scrum fell on him and broke his neck so he ended up paralysed from the neck down!

The second also suffered a spinal injury and ended up with severe MS at just 29 years old.

Neither was small in build and both experienced players.

But was that before the scrum rules changed 6 years ago ?

I filled out the form

I think the problem is, most children will be like mine and will only be playing rugby as part of school sports and the likelihood is they will not have a sports teacher who is really well trained and experienced at doing scrums - the same might be said of local sports clubs with lots of parent volunteers.

Bloody rugby - I looked after several young boys seriously damaged by the game.

DS plays league, so different. I think it's safer for players to learn young. Imagine loads of 18 year olds suddenly starting to scrum/ruck/maul without having previous experience! Now that would be dangerous imo.
There is talk in RFL of eventually playing by weight rather than age for children.

I filled out the form in less than a minute. The questions are straightforward and I know exactly what they are hitting at. It's only "nonsensical" to someone who doesn't play the game or understands it. But then I've a coaching certificate from the RFU (Twickenham) - albeit many moons ago. PM me if you want further help.

Completed DH played rugby with army and a good few of uni mates did too.

Done.

Why the obsession with apostrophes?

Biased already though.

Harmful contact = tackling and scrums ?

Sorry but the two aren't equal.

You could also say

Harmful contact = horse plus rider
Harmful contact = trampoline plus child

My 7 year old plays tag rugby and will be moving onto tacking once he joins the under 9s next year. To be honest stopping the kids tackling each other while they wait for their training to start is an uphill battle, they can't wait to start tackling. If you told them they had to play tag rugby until yhey were 18 most would probably quit the sport.

Indeed noeuf
A former colleague fell off her horse and as he stumbled, his hoof went through her abdomen
ruptured liver
broken ribs
ruptured bowel
broken pelvis
and that was just a gentle riding day

There was a very long thread on here about choosing a non rugby playing school active over the new year. Plenty of opinion there for your research

My non-sporty son doesn't get much enjoyment out of tag rugby. When his teachers started trying to teach them tackling type skills he really hated being pushed over (? age 8). Age 12 he had a really good rubgy term because, having grown early, he discovered that if he could just get hold of the ball then it was very hard for anyone to stop him ... But I think there were a few minor injuries to others at least some of which he may have been involved in (none serious and none where the teachers contacted us). So I worry quite a lot about the problems of size mismatch in this agegroup.

Depending on which school he goes to next year, one has compulsory rugby but the lowest teams only do tag, which strikes me as very sensible for the less capable boys. But my son won't be impressed I expect! Also our family runs to long necks and there is no way I or his grandmother (who with two brothers knows a lot more about rubgy than I do) want him anywhere near a scrum, ever!

Was happy to complete it - and am very much in favour of phased teaching of tackling/scrummaging (in Scotland all coaches are expected to have both completed "Rugby Ready" or is Rugby Right? on-line course concentrating on safety and all Minis coaches are supposed to have completed UKCC1 and all Midis coaches UKCC2 our club is strict on this ) - but I do think that the questions are very leading, and in some cases confusing.

As an aside, the other very important element in safety is the quality of referees. Dh is a Level 1 referee (as well as a UKCC2 qualified coach ) who only ever referees Junior games, so he knows the Age Grade Law Variations back to front (It's also why he can't progress to Level 2 as he won't put himself on to the register so that he is always available to referee a Junior game on a Sunday aging muscles can't cope with 2 games in a weekend ) . He tells me that referees are supposed to put Safety first, Equity second and then and only then consider the Laws. Referees have a big influence in ensuring that scrums are safe. He has taken boys (and girls) aside during a game to tell them what they need to do to improve their technique to be safer. (he doesn't like referees at pro level to coach but thinks that there is a role to do a degree of it at youth level).

I would have liked an 'any other comment section' As parent of 4 children (2boys, 2 girls, 1 with ADHD and one with ASD) who all now play weekly I am very keen that they are taught tackling and scrums properly

What does ‘it’ in q’s 2&3 refer to? And ‘this’ in a 7? I am confused by q7

Compulsory rugby at schools should be banned. If a boy doesn't feel comfortable playing (and I know a lot of boys who didn't want to play because they were scared) they shouldn't be forced to, regardless of how good the teaching is.

It's a very biased badly worded survey I am afraid! You are assuming people think tackling should be banned and I don't understand several of the questions

Talking about this with dh and ds - on the way back from ds(17)'s very wet and cold rugby game and we were all unanimous that rugby should very definitely not be compulsory, ever. The slightest hesitation can put you more at risk in a tackle.

Ds is a very good scrum half (as was dh don't know if he was as good ) so is never in the scrum, but us frequently involved in the breakdown. But as he himself says, even though he is small compared to the other players, he has good technique, is confident and can tackle well. Someone else small and nervous would be at risk.

The other important thing is that all youth teams should follow the full concussion protocols. In Scotland, that now means 23 days before a U18 can play after a concussion (longer if symptoms recur) - and if there is a 2nd concussion within 12 months, the player should be assessed by a medical professional specialising in concussion.

I would like compulsory rugby banned yes

The survey seemed perfectly clear to me. I have filled it out. I did rather think that it should have added questions on the role of informed consent. I believe compulsory rugby at school is unacceptable in any form, but given that people can make choices to do things that might harm themselves for excitement in all kinds of situations, I think consent should be central.

I'd like to see this kind of inane herd violence banned from schools altogether. People choosing to do this stuff in clubs they join voluntarily is fine, but regarding it as being part of an educational process, let alone pushing kids to do it, I find utterly repugnant. Our choice of schools for our kids was scored strongly on sports with a 100% exclusion on schools where rugby was either compulsory or no adequate alternative provided. The only thing we wanted our kids to avoid more are boxing and horse-riding.

I would never have considered a school where rugby was central to the ethos and identity of the school and / or compulsory. Nothing against those wanting to play or the game itself, may they thoroughly enjoy themselves, but holding it up as the basis for your outlook on life and making it central to a school promotes a particular model of exclusive (as opposed to inclusive) masculinity.

I was about to fill it in but it’s only about school rugby, yes? My dd has no opportunity to play rugby at her single sex school so she plays for a local club instead, so the assumption it is a school sport meant a couple of the questions were irrelevant to us. ( eg should it be a parents choice...)