Girls Vs Boys Education (GCSE) Options

[Ginorchoc]

A local Trust with 3 schools within the group have released the GCSE options for the students. One is a girls Grammar School, one a boys Grammar School and a Co-Ed non selective.

All the schools offer the usual GCSE options, however as choice options the Boys have been allocated Business and/or Engineering and the Girls Drama, Food and Textiles.

The school have been challenged, however no students were consulted as the school feel that these subjects are best suited to the students needs.

There is unrest amongst some parents and students however the school won’t back down or reconsider the options?

Why are we still stuck in this mindset!

So girls cannot do Business? Engineering GCSE is not worth much because Engineering degrees do not depend on it. That's true for Business as well. However, surely Business should be offered to both? How many girls want to do Engineering GCSE? Could they get a class together even if it was offered?

So boys cannot do Drama, Food or Textiles? I would be very angry about Food and Drama. Textiles can be part of Art A level. I guess few boys want to do Textiles, so ditto the comments on Engineering. I agree that this is very short sighted but probably due to low numbers for each subject and they can only offer them at one school and possibly don't have facilities at all the schools, especially for Engineering, Food Tech and Textiles.

We are stuck with it due to lack of facilities inall schools (especially single sex ones), the fact that tiny classes cannot be accommodated (and never were) and GCSEs in Business, Engineering and Textiles are not necessary but nice to do.

I wonder whether they have looked at take up in previous years and realised that some subjects are not worth offering because they don't get enough people applying and then that leads to disappointment when the pupils who have selected them are told they won't run?

I also wonder whether this is the downside of a) selective and b) single sex that certain options won't get enough take up and so stop being offered. (Similar to some secondary moderns not being able to offer triple science and 2 languages).

If girls want to Do those options open to the boys can they attend the boys school to do them? We had this in the 70s at the girls grammar I attended and we could go to the boys grammar for some options and vice versa.

Thank you for the responses, unfortunately even though the schools are just really across the road they can attend the courses in the other school.

They have never offered the courses (now or previously) to the students and decided themselves the courses as ‘interest’ areas for the students.

I feel that there is an incurrent here, they are both stem schools however only the boys are offered the Engineering. Business would be useful for both as are the other subjects.

They have said they open the options to them all at A Level, however by them those who opted in for the GCSE must have an advantage by that stage?

*Undercurrent (No faith in the students abilities in these subjects)

Just wondering what options the co-ed offers...

Not necessarily. They don’t have an advantage at A level other than possibly Food and Textiles and Drama. Even that is debateable. You can do textiles as part of Art A level. Few schools offer it as a stand alone. GCSE Art is the best prep for an arty pupil as it’s a general qualification rather than a specific one. Engineering A level (does it still exist?) is perfectly doable with Maths and Physics and no GCSE. Engineering departments at university will not care about GCSE Engineering. Theatre Studies is usually done at A level, not Drama. This goes well with English and can be taken by pupils who have an interest in theatre as opposed to being good at acting. Business Studies A level is mostly taken by pupils who have not done a GCSE in it and it is often the same with Economics.

This will be all about timetabling and resources in the schools. As long as a DC has Ebac and 3 other broad subjects, that’s fine. I assume Food and Textiles are not taught to the boys because they do not have the resources. How do these subject choices impact your DC?

“Why are we still stuck in this mindset!”

Perhaps because parents are still stuck in the last century mindset of single sex selective education. Schools can only offer as many courses as they have facilities, staff and students for, and will meet the highest demand.

Are all these courses available in the co-Ed school? My Dc could have chosen any of these options at their good comp, all of which have a co-Ed take up.

“Parents stuck in the last century”

Bit of a sweeping statement without knowing the school set up.

They are the only options available to us, the schools sites are over 100 years old and too small to hold all students.

Re the highest demand, they have never established what that might be.

If a student of either sex wants to do Engineering then they need to study Maths and Physics. Engineering GCSE (and A'levels/ Btec) are more for the disaffected students, just like Child Care Or Hairdressing.
I am surprised if they don't offer drama to all, as that has lots of positives for all kinds of students.

OP; I said ‘perhaps’ and I am not talking about you personally. Yes it is a sweeping generalisation because in general there are still many parents (and T May) who pro-actively chase a single sex grammar education. A model Based on social conditions in the 1950s, research done in the 70s and their own experiences a generation ago since when schools and education have made huge changes.

You say yourself the schools are small. They probably can’t fit the full range of courses happening simultaneously. They are schools built for another model!

But it won’t change, locally or nationally, without parental pressure.

If they provided all courses to all students in a combined co-Ed school would you still be keen? Or do you want all courses plus single sex Ed?

The problem is that some subjects are very expensive to set up and if that is for a very small number of students, you cannot afford to do it. What happens if all the keen students leave and no-one is much interested in textiles in the boys school for the forseeable future? Drama should be for all but Engineering is not taught in very many schools and neither is textiles. No-one needs Engineering, Business Studies or Textiles GCSE. How many boys would realistic do Food Tech? Enough for a massive investment and where do you get the classroom space from? Not teach something else?

You really have to accept grammar schools tend to do academic subjects and these are small single sex schools so how can they poosibly offer everything? Decisions have to be made. Art is just fine at GCSE and so is Maths and Physics for budding Engineers. It is odd not to offer Drama at all schools but you can go to cookery classes in the holidays (Leiths) or learn to cook at home. That is probably a lot more interesting than food tech in school?

Parental pressure cannot change these schools.There is no money to do any of this. Other than amalgamate I guess! Other parents would not want this though. You cannot win!

I agree but what my concerns me is they have these five subjects, decided to divide them to boy/girl traditional subjects.

As the trust already budget for them. Offer a supply and demand. Straw poll the schools and subjects, results go the the relevant schools, some students will still miss out as popularity wins but what it shows is they’ve chosen the subjects based on an informed choice, rather than a presumed choice.

Interesting feedback on Drama as my dd is reluctantantly considering this so any positive feedback will make her feel better about it.

Did TM attend a single sex school? know Margaret Thatcher did.

If they amalgamate the school parents would still choose it even if they disagree because there is no choice, the nearest town with Grammar schools are also single sex. Interestingly they are looking at this for the future of the trust but it’ll be down to cost to set up so I can’t see it being viable at present.

There are other differences. The intake it slightly smaller for the boys however they have invested £720k more in the past 2 academic years to the boys School, the boys are rewarded for good behaviour, trips to the cinema and the Oval cricket ground. The girls receive no rewards. The sports are also very different usual subjects for boys, just Dance in the Wii for girls

When we started at the school it wasn’t under the trust and had a different head, he had been there many years and was a popular driving force, when the schools merged the Head left and the choices such as GCSE are controlled by the boys School. It feels a little as though the girls are less important or of interest and just get on with it.

Co Ed School wouldn’t be an issue for me.