Steiner schools- We got a place

[birdsflying]

Hello, (This is a fair ramble of thoughts and feelings)
I have read previous threads on the subject of Steiner schools and i'm hoping to start this one without debate. Please only post YOUR experiences.

My two children have been offered a place at a local steiner school. We have just moved into the area and had been on a waiting list.

I love the ethos and I like the fact that they put off all the reading a writing until the age of seven and focus on other activities before then. The nature based learning and i'm not opposed to the spirituality.

I think this form of education would suit my youngest who is quite the personality and not very keen on writing (she's five). She struggles and is behind her peers at school. Wheras my son is very academic and loves learning and maths. Unfortunately I can't send one and not the other.

We are quite an alterniative family and have mostly lived in tightly knit communities of artists and creatives. We have moved rurally into a conservative area where breast feeding is frowned upon and where excluding people from play groups is the done thing if you have a difference in opinion (not my personal experience thankfully- just a witness).

We want to accept the place as we believe it might also be a good way to be apart of a community. The issue for us is mostly the fees.
We're in a fair amount of debt around 10,000 and have no savings behind us. We have put everything into a spreadsheet and it looks like we could afford it but things would be quite tight.. We worked out we could potatially pay our debts off over 8 years and pay the school fees but would be left with no savings or luxuries. (they have about 12 years of schooling before them).

I am freelance so sometimes I get non attanding clients or no shows and now and again need time off when unwell- unpaid obviously so as far as my job is concerned i'm not completely as stable as somebody working in employment. I have also had bad bouts of ill health over the last few years and have had months off work now and again. Luckily i've been okay over the last 2 years but it's always in the back of my mind that I will relapse and be in the same situation. I don't want my ill health to get in the way of this decision either.

I want to know about peoples experiences, is it amazing? Did your child thrive? How was the parent community? Any regrets? If i'm paying for it and sacrificing luxuries/essentially half a house in money, then I want to know that my children are being taught and have a good experience of it. I've talked to some steiner mums who say its down to the teacher?

This has been one of the hardest decisions to make for our family and we have spent two weeks discussing the pros and cons. We need to decide by tomorrow at the latest so please give your exeriences.

Please be nice and as i've said I WANT EXPERIENCES ONLY posi or nagative AND NO DEBATE- Everyone has their own story,. XX cheers in advance x

The Steiner school in Frome, Somerset is non fee paying.

Do not mistake a later start to reading with a liberal approach.

Steiner schools have a strict, undifferentiated curriculum. It is rigid compared to the state system. It is not child-centric like Montessori.

Are you really after that level of control? Because from the rest of your post, I would not have thought it was what you are looking for.

No direct experience. And no-one I know has kept DC in such a school beyound KS1.

My dd has recently left a Steiner school, personally I did not think the school she was at was worth the money at all.
Dd was flexi schooled and got a better education at home than she did at the school in my opinion.
I consider myself to be quite alternative in my views to education in that I do worry in state schools children are trained to pass tests in subjects rather than learning a subject fully. (I don't blame the schools for this rather the stupid set of of the education system)
So I thought Steiner would be perfect for us. It was not.

I personally felt that the lessons were so ridgid that in the end they hindered my dd and didn't enable her to learn.
There were many occasions that my dd wanted to read etc in class but as it was before her 7th birthday she was discouraged from this and instead made to focus on activities that she was bored of doing.
I understand that there's no rush to education in Steiner schools which I was happy with, but there's a difference between not forcing children to learn activities until they are ready and stopping children naturally progressing and exploring activities they wish to because of their age.

I tutored some children who were at the Steiner school. They found mainstream difficult, so their parents thought it would be a more supportive place because it wasn't so focused on reading and writing in the early years.

It was a bit of a disaster. Postponing reading and writing in this case was not a cure, because it wasn't simply lack of readiness or the children's personality, but genuine difficulties. When the did start having to read and write, the school did nothing to help, and they were blamed for their problems. They came back to mainstream in the end, even further behind than ever, and with no self-esteem.

They had to participate in some weird rituals like walking on coals and other things, instead of ordinary lessons, and questioning/free thinking was definitely not encouraged. They enjoyed the nature study side of things, but didn't ultimately learn all that much from their years there. There were a lot of rigid rules that seemed random to them, and yet in other aspects, they were left alone until they showed readiness or were a certain age, and they found it all confusing and unsettling because of the unpredictability.

It might have worked better for children who were motivated self starters, compliant at following rules, and who were academically strong enough to learn anyway even when not being formally taught.

I don't think it sounds like you have enough money to send them there. I'd look for a more supportive state school instead.

My experience (as a teacher) is of an extremely dyslexic, but very bright, artistic pupil. She is now doing Drama / Media at University. When she came to my school aged about 11 she had been "taught" by an assistant separated from the class in a room with (as she put it) the outcasts. Those who would get support in a state school but were virtually excluded by the Steiner school.

She did brilliantly once we worked out she was dyslexic including top qualifications in English.

My MIL is a children's social worker and she and her colleagues have serious concerns about safeguarding in their local Steiner school - there really doesn't seem to be the same attention to pastoral care as there is in state schools.
If I were you my concerns would be around the impact of having to pull my children from a Steiner education and put them into state school, should anything happen to prevent me from being able to pay fees. This sounds like a very likely scenario and I'm wondering how your children (and you) would cope with such a sudden transition.

My children did well in Steiner up until 11yrs. You need to meet the teacher and get to know them a bit. If the child and teacher 'click' it's great!

Financially speaking, it's worth asking if you can swap skills for fees.

Have you visited the school and got a feel for it? They are all very different. They can be a bit dippy, and don't work to the same standards of reporting and health and safety that state schools do. It's a bit more relaxed, happy go lucky- sometimes chaotic, possibly slightly risky but in that seventies way.

I'm interested that the one positive experience decided to send a PM. If this thread is for experiences not debate, then it could be a wonderful portal through which to show positive experiences.

Who knows, maybe I'll wake up in the morning and OP will need to start a second thread because this one is full from people with amazing experiences.

LOL, cross post!! One PM, one now on thread!

You simply cannot afford it without putting a financial strain on your family.

I don't believe you can decide that children as young as yours are simply not academic. They have plenty of time to show their skills and personality in a school setting and work out what makes them tick.

We want to accept the place as we believe it might also be a good way to be apart of a community. The issue for us is mostly the fees.

^This concerns me. You have issues with the fees, in that you cannot afford them, but want to be part of a community? I wouldn't want to be part of a community that would financially cripple my family!

State schools are just fine, I would send your kids there, have the extra money for a better quality of life, and think no more about it.

Is that a name change fail OP, or how do you know about a PM

This, this this. Meditrina has it in one.

*Do not mistake a later start to reading with a liberal approach.

Steiner schools have a strict, undifferentiated curriculum. It is rigid compared to the state system. It is not child-centric like Montessori*

In my experience steiner schools offer no flexibility. They teach their way, their pace and if it doesn't suit you, then thats tough. That's the steiner way. Like it or lump it. Any child who needs support will struggle more so and then be behind state educated peers by the time their parents realise they need more. I have taught many ex steiner children who have been moved to state schools...

I went to South Devon Steiner in early- mid 90's for primary age. I had a really lovely time. A lot of the 'teaching' was parents coming in a telling anecdotes about hitchhiking round Sudan or some bollocks, followed by some random reinactment or similar. All the parents would come and it was much more for their benefit than the kids.

My parents are both academics and they tutored me for 11+ which I passed. I did really struggle with settling in at secondary school as I wasn't used to be told off and couldn't work out a lot of the rules. Mainly things like why did I have to ask to go to the toilet when it would've been a lot less disruptive if I'd just taken myself off on my own etc.

I certainly learned an awful lot of things that I wouldn't have at mainstream school including but not limited to juggling, glass blowing and dry stone walling . If I'd stayed for secondary there is absolutely no way I would've coped with a levels or uni.

I'm not the OP! Someone upthread made a remark about how you'd not find positive things about Steiner on MN so they'd sent a PM.

Nope sorry got it slightly wrong, it was a PP suggesting OP PM them (at 18.58 - onadifferentplanet).

My experience is that at £10k in debt before you've even paid the deposit- you cannot afford a school with fees.

I agree.

Yes sorry OP I have no experience of Steiner but I honestly cannot see how/why you are considering private school when you have £10k of debt.

Do you earn a vast amount (in which case why the debt?) If not, how will you cover the fees? We have no debt but we certainly can't afford private.

My MIL is a children's social worker and she and her colleagues have serious concerns about safeguarding in their local Steiner school
Shouldn't ofsted be involved if there are safeguarding concerns?

There's a forum called Waldorf Survivors or something similar. Might help you with your decision.
You might find the caring, friendly, non-judgemental community you're looking for in a Steiner school - but it's not what what we found. In retrospect, I think we were cold-shouldered for coming from a state school (some of the opinions on state school pupils would have to be heard to be believed). I agree with Orange Buttons' and others' comments; in fact, the internet has made it apparent that the same things occur worldwide - the weird 'discipline' (or lack of), the teachers' word being final even if it makes no sense, the bullying and refusal to do anything about it, the ostracization of whole familes and the blatant favoritism shown towards certain children, often based on their appearance or the fact that they are considered as coming from a 'true' Steiner family. Weird punishments sometimes involving older children (ie. bringing two teenage boys in to retrieve a child hiding under a desk. Children being categorized according to the medieval temperaments.
Special needs are not catered for, and if there is an issue causing a delay in reading it won't be picked up until quite a late stage anyway (if at all).
But some people are welcomed with open arms and find the whole thing a lovely experience; some of those people have miserable children who are forced to spend years in a place they detest because their parents are either totally committed to Steiner and won't entertain anything else, or are so afraid of the tales of state system horrors that get bandied about that they stick with tbe devil they know.
But school fees are a massive burden at the best of times - I'd never advise taking them on when there's already a substantial debt.

Please think carefully re the money side of this. A life of stress and just about keeping your head above water will be stressful on you and kids. Save your money. Augment your children's education with your time and smiles. I looked at Steiner and have seen some great ones, and some not so great ones: just like state system: there are good ones and rubbish ones, but I think the money side is going to be very tough.

One more thing to add op, if you're going to struggle with the fees anyway then don't go down this route.
It was basically expected at my dd's school that parents pay for the upkeep of the school too.
It ended up costing me money on top of fees each month.

There's all the stuff they expect you to make for the summer fairs (e.g. Fairy wings except you have to buy the material yourself and make them)
There's the spring/summer/autumn fair that you are expected to donate toys/gifts/food too.
I felt like I was baking a cake a week for something.
Then there's the maintenance days where you go and help maintain the school but you end up having to buy and bring bits and pieces of equipment for the day and things like seads / plants.
There are so many little things that you end up having to buy for the school it's hard to keep track to be honest. I had to send dd in with vegetables every week and it's only £1 for a bag of potatoes but in one week it could easily be the vegetables plus some seads for the school plus a cake for coffee morning it all adds up.

Then there's the social stuff to raise money for the school where not only are you expected to attend (usually by paying for a ticket) but you're also expected to contribute to too.
For example they do a lot of meal nights at my dd's old school and concerts at school, so you pay £15 to go each to eat the food that you have donated cooked and prepared in a room you have decorated yourself with candies / trinkets bought with your own money.

It's never just the standard fees with any private school in my experience.

If you're 10k in debt you may need to rethink your employment situation as current freelancing isn't sufficient.
I would not take on a school fees burden with that level of debt.

I am happy to answer anyone's questions about our positive experience.

Thank you for all of the replies. It helped to write it all down and see the responses. We has been stuck on the decision since school broke up but have finally decided not to send them.

More than anything it was to do with current debt but also the urge to have a free and easy life with no work pressures or over looming debt- especially with my recovery and my illness having triggers of stress.

i'll be able to pay my debt off over the next two years gradually and take the kids away and do nice things with them without checking the bank balance constantly! We're lucky that we live rurally on a farm where the kids can get their nature fix and enjoy working with animals, den building and hay bale jumping...

I'm sorry to hear about the negative experiences that people have had and i'm pleased to hear about the lovely stories too. Since the kids were young we had always dreamed of sending them to a steiner school but i'm now thinking that keeping the family close, content and free of stress and pressure. ;-) Luckily the school that they are currently at is excellent, has lots of interesting extra-curricular activities and they balance the day out with gardening, yoga, recorder and gymnastics so it's not like they're slumped at a desk all day.

It's a relief to have made the decision and whilst I do feel slightly sad I think i've made the right choice! Thank you all xx

I don't think you will regret it op

Not all private ed is better than state