What do you think about Grammar schools?

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I'm genuinely interested in anyone's opinion on Grammar schools or selection at age 11 or 12 in general.

I live in a county which has always had Grammar schools and the 11+ and I went to an all girls Grammar school. I've just finished a conversation with my sister who lives in a county with comprehensive schools and kids still have to do an exam at 11 to be able to get into the comprehensive of their choice.

Bearing in mind that the Govt is encouraging schools to specialise in different areas, isn't this a return to the Grammar/technical/sec modern system in a different guise? Wouldn't it be more benefical for our kids to go to a school that suits them i.e. more or less academic/vocational/technical/trades etc.? So the 11+ would be seen more as a "let's see what you're good at" exam, rather than something to pass or fail?

I know this is an area where people have strong opinions and I would be very interested to hear them.

we are moving to a grammar school county next month, pure coincidence, the one in sleaford we are looking at seems excellent...
the 11+ is in October, we are told it is verbal reasoning the test this school assess on and we have had ds do a few mock ups which he has aced totally, so fingers crossed, but even so the other school look really top notch too...

Tigermoth I think that your son and mine (now 4.5 and about to start in reception in Sept) have a lot in common. Thankfully ds's school is small and strict, and his teacher, although very kind, lays down the law.

Interestingly my HOD used to work in an all boys grammar school. She maintains that if she had boys she would fight to get them into a grammar school, or private school as boys 'need' the dicipline and organisation more than girls.

Piffle, you must me moving near to me, I'm in Lincoln

hmb, I'n just hoping that the good effects of my son's three and a half year at his present primary will carry him through whatever school he attends, but I do have my doubts. Interesting to hear your HOD saying similar to my son's primary head.

I would like to hear from anyone who has sent their (challenging behavior/easily led/not particularly motivated) boy to a comp school with a not too good reputation, and has great things to say about it. Waiting with baited breath.... anyone out there ...please.

Sorry tigermoth, can't help you! We were faced with the option of sending our challenging easily led DD to a high school because although she passed the 11+ the Head wouldn't support her so she was turned down for a grammar place.

We were very lucky to get her an Assisted Place at a private school some 20 miles away & nearly bankrupted ourselves keeping her there until she'd done her GCSEs (still paying for it now because we had to remortgage to pay off the credit cards we'd had to run up). It was worth it for us, given how she could have turned out, but probably not an option now that Assisted Places have finished.

tallulah, thanks for answering my question. The silence was deafening!

I did wonder when the head was talking to dh and I about the evils of my son's last schools, if he was implying that we should do everything within our power (and credit limit)to send ds to a private school if he doesn't get into a grammar. As he is the head of a state school, I suppose he can't blatently recommend that we go private.

Our plan is to stay in London for a couple more years. dh is about to start a new job with training, giving him more transferrable skills. We really want to live in Devon asap after dh is trained. Hopefully ds will then go to Kingsbridge or Iveybridge community colleges, which sound fab. If ds has a rocky time at school in yr7 and 8, hopefully moving him in Yr 9 or 10 will help him catch up.

Plan C, if things are really desperate at his comp school, and we can't muster up the money to send ds to a private school, is for ds to live with his grandparents in Devon, if that would make him eligible for school there.

I just wish he could stay at his primary school tbh. It suits him so well and he is so happy there.

And the problems often get worse when a 'difficult' child moves up to secondary school. When they are in Primary they have the care of (for most of the time) a single teacher. As long as that teacher is a good one they can help to give kids the sort of structure that they need to keep on top of behavioral issues.

I teach in a secondary school. If if have kids with 'issues' it can be very difficult, if not impossible to get to the bottom of their probelms since I only see them twice a week. You can liase with the HOY, but that is a second best option and kids, and their problems, can sometimes get 'lost'.

In some ways children like my son would do better moving up to a middle school, that brakes them in gently to the idea of secondary, where one teacher still has more 'control' over them.

As it is my two go to a private school, for very different reasons. Ds needs the extra dicipline and contol that he gets there. It helps to ake him feel secure and content and has helped his behaviour no end. I hate to think what would have happened to him if her had gone to our local primary with a recpetion intake of 33.

Tigermoth, I would say that Y9 is often the make or break year. Kids often go off the boil in that year

I really, really wish middle schools existed around here. I don't think my son will be ready to move - it's not that he can't cope socially or academically, but if he's in a class with lots of challenging non attentive boys, and he's sat near them, I'm 75% sure he won't be able to help himself joining in with them. And without the same teacher looking out for him, I'm really afraid he'll drift.

hmb, you're making me feel more nervous! I'm trying not to be too worried yet as ds might get into a grammar school anyway. But so many children don't. And of course, grammar schools aren't perfect either. He will still need lots more self discipline in any secondary school environment, I'd imagine.

When you say kids often go off the boil in year 9, what do you mean? - sorry I'm being dense.

When kids come into school at age 7 they are generaly (and I'm making sweeping generalisations here ) keen to please. This carrys through into most of Y 8, but by Y 9 the hormone pixie has come to play and those children that are going to 'switch off' to education very often do it in Y9. Part of the reason for this is the 'dip' that happens during KS3.....there is a new KS3 policy that tries to counter this and the first set of kids to go throught the new system will be doing their SAT next year.

There are lots of theories as to why this happens, lack of continiuety in teaching, lack of challence (we have done this before miss). My money is on all the above with the basic fact that they are growing up and it isn't 'cool' to want to work in school any more.

Try not to worry about your ds, and I don't want to upset you. In the end you are giving your son the single biggest advantage that any child can have, a parent who is intersted in them and how well they do in school. In my experience kids in that fortunate situation are usualy fine.....a few niggles possible, but they are basicaly nice kids who will do well. The real prblems happen when children come from families where the parents don't give a damn. School is important, but parents are crucial.

Tigermoth, have you thought about the CTC in the other borough? I know a real slacker lad who has done very well there and was not a model pupil/genius in the making when he went...lovely boy though, with lots of less school-oriented but useful talents and interests, rather like your ds1!

marina, does CTC stand for City Technology College? I have yet to research all the options in our neighbouring borough.

Other borough as in not the same borough as the grammars - going the other direction. It is a City Technology College. I'll drop you a mail about it.