Can anyone explain how state schools are financed? Does fundraising irritate anyone else?

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I've been meaning to ask this question for ages! Does anyone know how state school finance works? i.e. how does each school get their income? Is it allocated per child? Does it depend on how loudly they make their case to the LEA? Because quite frankly, I've had enough of our damn PTA making our children do ridiculous things in the name of fundraising and incentivising them. I don't think the children should be involved: some of them don't even get fed properly at home ffs so they really don't need to be going home with sponsor forms IMO. At least you can choose to go or not go to a cake sale but you can't choose not to participate in an event that involves the whole school for 2 hours.

Our school also recently asked for 'voluntary donations' (which aren't really voluntary since they made it clear the trip wouldn't go ahead if everyone didn't pay) of a fiver for an event and I should think this really stretched some of the parents but there was no space on the form to say 'I can't afford it'. Our school don't seem to realise that there might not be enough money in every home to sponsor kids or pay for these trips. The cash they raise is all money from parents at the end of the day and in a deprived school such as ours I think it's out of order. Whilst we can afford it I should think many can't.

Anyway, I just want to understand the system really. TIA, and I know it's boring but I feel quite strongly about it and whilst I've avoided getting too involved with our up-themselves PTA I'm wondering whether I should to see if I can get them to consider some of these issues. Am I the only one that feels like this?

I'm not 100% on this but I think the govt sets an "ideal" spend for each pupil. However the money comes via the LEA who "top slice" it and can add to it or take away from it as they wish. VA schools provide at least 15% of their own funding. Generally the PTA stuff is supposed to be for "non-essentials" e.g. library resources, touch screens and so on, although in my bro's VA school the PTA has funded an additional classroom assistant for the past year for a child with behavioural probs because LEA wouldn't.

In the school where I work there is a scheme in place that will pay for school trips for those who's parents cannot afford it. However, this funding is limited and if not enough people pay, then the trip cannot go ahead, for equal ops reasons.

The alternative is that no trips are organised at all, as we don't have the moeny for books, let alone to pay the whole trip cost for all the kids.

Drives me mad WWW.

In the last fortnight DS has brought home 2 requests for donations (theatre group visits); a sponsored walk form; a £13.00 set of photos of a helicopter visit; 2 football training leaflets (£44 for a days coaching) and a sales leaflet for the book fair.

The pressure to contribute is immense. I certainly can't afford them all and I know we are better off than a lot of others. I sent £5 for the sponsored walk - they can go jump for the rest!

I agree with WWW. DS3 brought home 2 letters last Monday week, a trip to a castle for £12 & a day trip to France £24. Money required by Friday please....! Don't most parents get paid at the end of the month?

We aren't "poor" as in "we can't eat if we pay this", but in a month when we've had a lot of expenses plus gas, electric, phone & other bills this was the last straw.

It's all very nice for these trips but an expense I can do without.

Schools are principally funded on a per pupil basis - each LEA will provide a different amount per pupil. The govt gives each LEA a different per pupil amount & some LEAs pass less funds on to schools than others.

IMO it is a very unfair system that means that neighbouring schools, in different LEAs could have 100% different funding, even though their catchment areas could be pretty similar.

Trips, these days, tend to be v expensive because coach companies now charge v high prices. Most schools simply don't have the cash, sadly, to subsidise the cost. My DK's school do waive the fee to people who have difficulties (and offer installment payments etc) - we are fortunate in that there is a local charity who sometimes give donations to assist families that can't afford to pay. The school have also made great efforts to find suitable destinations which can be reached by train - which keeps the cost down.

I think the thing that bugs me most is the lack of notice for these things

I filled in a form for a school trip this week. Thought the trip was free ( silly me!). Got phoned up at work by the school secretary who told me I hadn't included the necessary £5.00. The assumption was I'd be paying it. Could have been really embarassing if I'd been short of cash that week.

I get annoyed with the private companies who come into school, offer a service to the pupils and then charge parents a lot for it. School photographs for instance. Why can't you buy just one photo for £2.00 say rather than a set for £7.00 minimum? It works out expensive with two children at the school. This year for the first time I have not ordered any school photos within the recommended time limit. I will order them later, direct from the photographer, when we have more money. However, I will then have to pay a £6.00 search fee on top of the cost of the photos

I get really miffed at the constant request for money from our school. However, it's not always the PTA that are asking - the PTA should be paying for non essential items to enhance the childrens learning not maintaining it as marialuisa said. A couple of years ago our head asked the PTA to part fund a year 6 child's end of year residential trip. However they wanted the donation to be minuted as "donation to school funds" over which I resigned as chair. We have constant school discos in the name of the School Fund. Last week they were selling tickets for the latest ones, each one (infants and juniors) were lasting an hour and a half and spanned from 4.30-8pm with half an hour break in between. Tickets were £1. On Friday (day of the disco) afternoon when I went to collect the children from school there was a sign outside saying the infant disco was now 4-5 and juniors 5.15-6.45!! Completely ruined any plans I had for mealtimes etc and getting ready. One of the teachers told my friend it was because the junior teachers weren't prepared to stay that late... Also our school expect volunteer helpers to pay 25p per cup of Aldi coffee during break time!!! - now that really pisses me off..

As batgirl says, it's bums on seats type of funding. There isn't enough money to do school trips, and the reason we always put 'voluntary contributions' on letters is because the Government says we aren't allowed to charge for trips. Obviously, they can't go ahead unless a certain proportion of people pay. But we always do put a bit on our letters about speaking to the school office if paying is a problem. We have never had to cancel a trip and usually manage to keep the cost to about £6, and give plenty of notice too. My ds2's school is shocking - they are always asking for money and their PTA raises thousands from events. It got to the point last year, that after 5 requests for money/donations in 2 weeks (I kid you not!), I was really tempted to fill the basket they sent home for every child to fill for the summer fair, with condoms, tampax and sanitary towels!!!

www, I don't understand the funding either and too feel a bit miffed at the constant requests for money. This week I've parted with £10 for a trip for dss1 and £16 for two trips for dss2. Plus dss2 is going on a school trip to France in October, 5 days north of Paris and the school has confirmed that due to the small number of pupils that want to go the cost is now £460!!! and that's for a 2star hotel. Yes, I agreed dss could go but what's pi$$ed me off is their demands for the remaining balance which must be settled before the end of this term (I've paid £350 so far), don't they consider that people will be going on their own holidays plus the summer holiday period costs us all a fortune?

In the last month I have had to pay £16 for school photos, £13 fir dd school trip, £24 keyboard tuition for dd, £6 for ds music tuition, still to pay for tickets to end of year production, £12 for a video thereof, £4 for school disco tickets & refreshments, and £32 for dd school trip for her new school.

£460 LMB???? that's outrageous!!! you could take him yourself for less!

Schools are funded mainly on the number of bums on seats on a given day in the year, usually January. Some funding is based on the internal floor area of the school, and, the area of grassed and planted areas. On top of this there are other government grants - Standards Funds, some of these are ring-fenced, i.e. MUST be spent on specific goods/services, others, although initially allocated for specific projects, can be moved between projects if the school wants to spend more on one project than on another. There are also elements for Special Educational Needs, Additional Educational Needs and Free School Meals.

WWW - have you had the annual report from the governors or PTA yet? You could put a question to either of them at their AGMs asking why the school asks for so many 'voluntary contributions'. Ask whether these 'contributions' are paid into the schools private funds or into their public funds - there could be VAT implications if the 'contributions' and any related invoices are not processed in the same fund.

HTH

If you need any more help ask away.

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