7% at comps get AAB

[Judy1234]

Just looking at today's FT schools tables/reports. Only 7% of comprehensives get pupils with grades AAB at A level. 62% of pupils get that at the best 50 independent schools (about 70 such pupils a year per school) and about 31 from selective grammar schools.

However the top 10 comps have 31% getting AAB which isn't too bad and the bottom 50 comps have 1% of pupils getting AAB.

The best comperhensive - Watford Grammar gets 8 Oxbridge offers a year.

But then surely you'd expect that. If the school isn't selective, whether it's fee paying or not, you can't expect to get lots of high a level grades so why does the Government want more children proportionately from comprehensives and (new rule) whose parents didn't get to university? It's like saying I want people who aren't right for this given preference over those that are. That these really bright pupils from the state grammar school whose parents both went to univesrity will not be allowed in but these rather thick children who have left it too late to be brought up to an Oxbridge standard age 19 will get preference.
www.ft.com/cms/s/4037c7f2-ceae-11db-b5c8-000b5df10621.html

Thanks Xenia. Have just checked and Hollygirt only goes to 16yo so it won't be there.

A lot of employers rightly will only look at Oxbridge and the better universities. Obviously anyone can buy out of those values, become a nun, farm, a hippy, a left wing activist working for their local council or whatever but the values however suspect of a lot of people in this society are those I've described. Fatter people fine it harder to get jobs. Clients prefer people who look good etc etc. It's easier to find a husband or wife if you're not 30 stone. A lot of this is just common sense and even if you went into the Amazon you'd find whoever had the biggest penis gourd or best face painting or shot the most monkeys is revered. People are by nature competitive. It's how we are.

I've 32 children at univesrity and one who's done all these new online applications and not only do they want A level grades but marks in each paper on each university exam to see how high a 2/1 it was. In my day a third got 2/1 so it was rare. Now 2/3 get 2/1s so it's harder to assess who is good and who isn't and we have nearly 50% of children going to university, not 15% when I went so it;s much harder for employers to distinguish candidates.

... 3.. not 32...

Xenia,

Would you consider the Open University as one of the 'better Unis' as described below?

I think you've done really well with the OU which opened up the possiblity of university degrees to lots of people. Employers have such a massive pile of CVs for some types of jobs that even looking beyond Oxbridge is a burden but they still try to for the right candidates. If you're just talking about recruitment of the best of the generation at 21 (which is a very narrow band obviously) they often just because of sheer weight of numbers have to limit themselves to a few of the universities it is hardest to get a place at just to make the application pile manageable and then discount anyone without high A levels and a 2/1 just before they get into who might be shortlisted. I can understand how they have to have that model for practical purposes.

There is therefore some merit in trying to get our children to the better universities rather than say Middlesex if you buy into this system at all. If they can't get into Oxbridge then it's a good idea to pick one from the Russell Group if you're after those types of jobs on graduation so places like Oxbridge, Bristol, Durham, LSE, Manchester.
www.russellgroup.ac.uk/

Our local comprehensive has an amazing cross section of kids entering. This is from their website about latest results:

The LHS results were 11% above the national average at grades A - B and 12% above the national average at grades A- C. Students taking A Levels and AVCEs have gained an average of 315 UCAS points, well above local and national averages. The average points score per entry was 91.9.

3 of our students gained 4 Grade As. S has also gained 2 Distinctions in AEA Maths and Physics and 2 grade 1s in his STEP examinations and a grade A in AS Economics. SB has the additional distinction of achieving the highest possible grade in all public examinations she has sat; straight A*s at GCSE, followed by 5As at AS and 4As at A Level.

5 students gained 3As - 22 other students achieved 3 or more A Levels all at grades A or B.

Some students who entered the school with modest prior achievement achieved exceptional A Level results. The overall pass rate at A-E was 100%, 3.8% above the national average.

Click here to access the 500 top schools in the TIMES.

I am proud to send my daughter there, she is forecast all A*'s in her GCSE's and no entrance exams involved!

XENIA

Does it matter what your children do at uni?

ie which course ?

Very tactful Xenia, - I wasn't picking a fight by the way, - just interested in what you thought!

Don't you think it's a shame that some companies then can be full of staff with very similar backgrounds/life experiences, and that, should you child get into one of these companies they are being deprived of the diversity and richness of life and supported in their belief that the educational route is the most/only acceptable one for those types of jobs/companies, perpetuating or even being responsible for this type of competiveness?

I am trying not to say too much about my children as despite all the stuff they splurge out on Facebook (which employers do read and check by the way) I was being discreet.

Do the subjects matter? Depends what someone wants to do obviously. If they want to be a doctor they need to read medicine.

B, depends on the job. If you're looking at being an actuary, investment banker, lawyer, top management consultant or even just in the new graduate recruitment programme for any big company you want new graduates who are clever. It's terribly interesting at the moment because of the new age discrimination laws which mean actual having these programmes might not be legal and the 75 year old who wants to get the job on the "milk round" has to be allowed to try.

What you find by the time those people are my age that people succeed from many backgrounds and if they're good enough they do okay although it's harder if you don't have the easier entry.

Just talking to my oldest who has got her first job about who manages to get in where. It's not easy for new graduates even at good universities.

No what I meant was how your children choose their subject for degree

Was it important to you what they studied as you seem to have opinions on everyone else's children

I wondered about your own and if they decided not to go to UNI would you have made them iyswim

Cos IMHO if a child wants to go to work at 18 then they should -- rather than go to uni

I just wondered if you were opinionated about the children as much as you judge others?

I think if you don't, for whatever reason, get a good degree, you have to be very good at talking/networking/making connections and engineering your way into places. I know people who have achieved pretty great things that could never have been expected from their academic results (cos they messed around) but they have made friends in the right places and impressed people with their obvious ability in spite of results.

Graduate recruitment is such a strange area. I am now a senior manager at a place I was originally rejected from in the graduate milk round. Not long ago I met the now retired boss who interviewed and rejected me - quite an interesting experience. One of her criteria for employment appeared to be possession of testicles (it was allowed then)

If I am asked to select candidates for interview I can't be bothered with exam marks and look for those who have got something really unusual on their personal statements (and a comp school wins over private every time)

Xenia- as someone who is involved with admissions to 2 clinical courses at a Russell Group uni I can tell you that as far as we are concerned A grades in biology and chemistry at A-level mean nothing. We have a hugely complicated admissions process which barely gives UCAS forms a cursory glance and we are adding to that process by introducing spot-tests for basic biology and chemistry because we are fed up with having to run remedial classes covering the basics that we had assumed students getting As at a-level would be able to do with their eyes shut.

marialuisa - that's very interesting. Are there school leaving exams that you rate higher than A-levels in biology and chemistry? What do you think of the International Baccalaureate, European Baccalaureate, French Baccalaureate?

The link below to 100 schools by SueW looks very much like the top 100 independant schools, not the top of the FT list.

A good mark in the IB was rated at about 6 A grade A levels last year, so the schools offering the IB came top in UCAS points.

My brother got in to Merton College with B,D,E grades in the mid-1970s, from a private school (which if anything discouraged academic achievement), and graduated with a second. My AAB got me an interview at Oxford, but not a place.

Can anyone tell me why DS's school (in SE England) would use the Welsh Board for GCSE History? All the topics are 20th century (Russian revolution, China, WW2). We are trying to decide GCSE options between Geography and History - DS likes and is good at both.

There are several grammar schools on Sue's link - they are definitely not all private.

Kendrick (22) and Reading School (37) are definitely state grammars - girls & boys respectively - DS went to Reading (and got AAB incidentally)

I am appalled by your posting confusedandignorant. Did you seriously - within one breath - complain about someone discriminating against you (lack of testicles) and then boast that you discriminate against others (privately educated). Shame on you.

Xenia: I was actually recruited by one of the top Management Consultancy companies who were decent enough to recognise my 3 years work experience and offer me a job above the graduate posts despite having no A-Levels. So you comment about people suceeding via different routes is valid.

However, are you not concerned that by the increasing emphasis on Oxbridge/A-Level results there is a danger that access to these jobs for bright individuals that took a more difficult route is becoming less possible?

Also, I would be interested in your response to the idea that it is not competitiveness that has moved us forward from the animal woeld, and even those that live 'in the Amazon', but socialisation, working together and the development of language (a social tool'!

Marialuisa: My DH is a senior lecturer at a RG Uni and they do the same. It's maths they need and in the interview he gives a test!

I don't think that it is about being competitive though - some careers are not as competitive to get into as others, so people looking at going into say teaching or nursing don't always have the same amount of competition that certain other jobs have. Some jobs are quite competitive - a strong academic background will be one string to your bow, but only one. You still need more than just a good degree to get into certain jobs, and depending on what else you have on your cv, the degree may not be as essential. And degrees and A levels depreciate in value relatively quickly - these days a lot more emphasis will go on continuous learning and what you have done professionally etc.

I don't think that there is an increasing emphasis on Oxbridge tbh. It is still a help, and the networking is probably as strong as ever if you choose to use it, but most large companies are looking for some diversity, and if anything Brits who get into US unis currently seem to have more currency with large employers.

Agree with Ladymuck that there is no 'increased emphasis' on Oxbridge and A grades at A Level and actually most employers neither look for nor expect this kind of candidate. However if there is a choice between a candidate from Oxbridge and one from say Manchester Metro I would imagine that the one from Oxbridge is more likely to win regardless of the class of degree. This is not necessarily because this person is the best for the job or the most able but because the emphasis on status and snobbery and elitism is still rife in this country. Also worth pointing out that there are some jobs where Oxbridge graduates are over-represented. The best example is the House of Commons (Commons - ho, ho) where the majority of MPs are still private school and Oxbridge educated. SO much for them being representative of the general public. And please let us remember that those who have A grades at A Level and those who go to Oxbridge are a tiny and elite minority.

I never said there was an increased emphasis on Oxbridge but there are more graduates, without a doubt so it's harder to pick the best and in some narrow hard to get into careers like some of the ones I mentioned below if you have good A levels, a 2/1 and a good CV generally you do better. I have a friend who did recruitment in the City and she'd have such a huge pile even from those filtered by HR that you could assume Oxbridge or near equivalent as they don't want to be as narrow as that 2/1 or first , AAA/AAB for just about everyone on the pile and then she'd start her sifting looking for who had climbed Everset, set up a charity in Thailand, was world knitting champion or whatever it might be - doesn't matter, just some enthusiasm or interest that sets people apart.

The reason that list of schools getting good A levels appears indepdendent is that the private schools are so very much better. A good few state schools though are on there and quite high up, aren't they? I see the Telegraph on Saturday also had a schools supplement with a fairly similar chart.

Beth, not sure if we have moved forward from the Amazon at all. Progress isn't always wise. What's happened is testosterone has come to the fore and groups of men took over other bits of the world once we settled down and tilled the soil - read Adam's Curse by Professor Sykes which I read recently. He goes into how we moved across the planet and the influence of man (and I mean man, not mankind).

Having tests in addition to A levels is what the law and medicine courses are now requiring at some places to distinguish between the As and the Oxbridge very testing interview has always helped in a way those universities (most others) who don't interview don't get the chance to use as another filter.

20 years on it doesn't matter how you do often. As someone else said on the thread below some people mess around when they're teenagers and at university but are eventually quite clever and hardworking and get up there but have a harder route to doing it.