How can I get the school to give it a rest?!

[sis]

Warning - long post warning but I hope you will bear with me and help on this one.

Ds (aged five) came home from school on Monday this week with a note about a trip to a wildlife park on Thursday (yes, in the same week). Admittedly, we had been away on holiday (authorised by the school) the previous week - but because of the lack of notice, neither my husband or I could get the time off work to go on the trip with our son Thursday. Ds is a very, very timid child and the school have been great in helping build his confidence so that he is more sociable and not to terrified of things, however, he is still very scared of lions and tigers and in the past has had nightmares after watching them on the wildlife bits on cbeebies.

We decided that as ds has made such a lot of progress in his confidence; we did not want to 'set him back' by making him go on the trip when he said he did not want to go. The next day, I asked his teacher whether he should go to school or be kept at his childminder if he couldn't go on the trip and she asked why he might not go and I explained our reasoning. The teacher asked me to reconsider and said she could keep him in her group. Ds, however, was adamant that he did not want to go and as we a reservations about sending him, we decided to stick to the original plan.

On Wednesday, I got a call from the school deputy head to discuss the trip and she suggested that ds would be happier about going on the trip without us if we could take him to a similar place beforehand and I replied that I would be happy to do that but the trip was the next day. She then suggested that ds go on the trip but avoid going to any areas of the park that he was not comfortable with and assured me that they would make sure that this did not mean that any children who wanted to see the lions would miss out. I said that if ds was happy with that, then I would send him on the trip. The deputy head said she would discuss it with ds's class teacher and they would ask ds and let me know by either phoning me or putting a note in ds's bag.

When I got home, there had been no phone call and there was no note in ds's bag so I had to ask ds whether his teacher had talked to him about the trip and what the outcome was and worked out that he had said no their offer. I was a bit peeved at this stage as we were trying to downplay the whole thing with ds but because the school had not got back to me, I didn't know whether ds was going to the childminder or on the trip the next day, I had to talk to ds about it.

On Thursday morning (the day of the trip) I got a call from the head at school just as we were about to leave the house to tell me that ds was not going on the trip - she apologised for not phoning earlier but she had had a lot of calls to make.

Later on Thursday, the deputy head calls again to confirm the details of a meeting about a separate, unrelated matter that I had asked for and said she also wanted to discuss future school trips at the meeting and I replied that if we had been given enough notice about the trip then there would be no problem. I also pointed out that I had written to the head asked for more notice of school events as my husband had missed our son's first nativity because the school told us the date less than ten days before the event.

Today, when I dropped ds off at school I was given a letter by his teacher from the deputy head to confirm the meeting next week and in this letter she again mentioned the trip and asked us to go to the wildlife park (or a similar place) with ds this weekend.

So far:

1. Ds's class teacher has talked to me about the trip
2. The deputy head has phoned my to discuss the trip on Wednesday.
3. The deputy head has phoned me to discuss the trip on Thursday.
4. The deputy head has written to me about the trip today (Friday)

AND they want to discuss it again next week and I am fed up with it.

I am inclined to tell them that if we have enough notice and we feel it is appropriate to send ds then we will send ds on future trips but we will not do so otherwise. I know it is a bit rude to say that and I do want to keep relations with e school on a good footing but I am so fed up about them blowing up this small thing into a big issue that I am in danger of screaming at them to bloody well leave me alone!!

Thank you for reading this ? Please tell me if you think I am being unreasonable or not and, if not, what can I do to get the school to give it a rest now? please help!!

Is it just that they are very concerned he's going to miss out? Other than that, it seems a very bizarre way of dealing with things. BTW DS is also five and in Reception and we are given a calendar of things like trips, concerts etc at the beginning of every term and we already have the term dates and inset dates for the next school year. Sounds like that biggest problem is your DS's school's lack of forward notice.

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I think the school was wrong not to give more notice about the trip, even if you were on holiday during the previous week. Even the pre-school that ds1 attends gives at least 3 weeks notice so that parents can make the necessary arrangements. Not only did your ds miss out on the trip but the school also missed out on having an extra helper.

The fear of the animals is a separate issue, I think. I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect you to take him to the wildlife park yourself - unless of course it's close by and you have a car and the necessary time. Perhaps the school would back off a bit if you told them you were helping ds1 to overcome his fear, eg reading factual books about the tigers or stories with these kinds of animals as the characters. Maybe he could carry out a mini-project that you could show to the school?

Point out to them (again!) that parents need more notice about these kinds of trips. 2 weeks should be an absolute minimum IMO.

Immediate reaction: they should back off, big time! What ever is the problem ffs? It's only a wildlife park, he's only 6 (IIRC or not much more is he?) and so what if he doesn't want to go? I really don't see what the problem is. The only thing I can think of is that they're worried about something else (no idea what, his timidity?) and see this as symptomatic. I may be way off here though. Either that or they've all got waaaaay too much time on their hands to be hassling you and your son about it. And I don't think they're giving much notice either although this time it was extra short notice for you presumably because you were away.

Oh and it's NOT THEIR PLACE IMO to tell you to take your ds to a wildlife park! Absolutely not!

I'm not sure I understand what the school's concern is/was. Do they think he should have gone on the trip? if so, why?

I agree that you should have more notice but (and don't shoot me here) if it's out of concern that they are doing this then I actually think it's quite nice that the school is taking the time to speak to you about it. Can't you just go in and speak to them and sort it all out once and for all?

Unless, of course, you asked for advice on how to encourage your ds to like wild animals? I doubt it though and would have thought it was perfectly possible to get on in life never seeing one!

sis - I agree with Galaxy on this one. Make your point about the lack of notice and leave it at that. And no, they're not on telling you to take him beforehand. Let us know what happens at the meeting.

I have to say, I'm with www - I don't see why we all have to like lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) - it's perfectly reasonable to be scared of them!

I would be very curious about the school's concern though - as someone else said, it's very nice that they're going to all this effort to talk to you about it, but why? I can't imagine that they'd make this much effort about one trip, it does sound like there's something else they want to talk to you about.

Meanbean, I can hear Pooh's voice saying that first line!

Perhaps they're going to be doing work in class about the wildlife they saw at the park and they want your ds to be able to join in. Though if it is that, they should have said so.

Thank you all so much - I feel too close to it all now and am questioning my rationality so it is nice to know that fellow mumsnetters think it is weird too.

Yes StickyNote, Galaxy and Tinker, if they had given us enough notice we could have planned around it and there would no problem. I am always asking them to give us more notice and they have now started a 'dates for your diary' list at the start of each term only, they didn't do one for the summer term!

I agree, Katierocket, it was nice of them to ask why ds was not going and to try and work around our concerns but now that the trip is over, I think they should just let it drop. It isn't as if he nover goes on any trips as I went with him to a trip to the London Aquarium last term. As I said, ds is really, really timid but is gradually overcoming it and whilst he is unlikely to be the life and soul of the party, he seems to make friends and play with them and generally enjoy school and I am grateful to the school, and have told them so, for all they have done to help him achieve that.

Coppertop, as a family, we are not into animals and I don't see that as a bad thing. Ds is is not afraid of all animals just the nasty ones that he knows can kill people. He happily watches spiders and other creepy crawlies on tv while I have to leave the room 'cos it makes my skin crawl! I agree totally with MeanBean, surely it would be stranger to not be afraid of lions and tigers than to be afraid of them?! Not being afraid of wild animals is not exactly a life skill in this country,is it? WWW, ds is five and at the moment, I feel like telling them to back off because, as you say, they are making a huge issue out of a fairly minor matter.

Agy, yes they did say that the class would be doing a lot of work on it after the trip and ds would miss out but if he had gone and asked to stay away from the wild animals, he still would not be able to participate in the follow up classwork.

I am beginning to think that what started out as genuine concern for ds missing out is now just a matter of principle for them.

The school have said that they are concerned about ds's coordination and asked me to mention to our GP who has referred ds to a neurologist. I asked for a meeting with the school to clarify their concerns before the appointment with the neurologist as I had just assumed that ds was shy (like me), a bit clumsy (like me!), not very adventurous (like me and dh!) and had not been overly concerned by his behaviour/development.

I will let you know what happens and if anyone has anymore comments, or can throw more light on the school's approach, please post!

A neurologist?? peadiatric neurology waiting lists down here are usually over 2 years. Are you having a private appointment? If not and you want a faster assessment you would probably be better off seeing an OT (although we waited a year an a half for an OT appointment_ They're easy to see privately though- and obviously cheaper than neurologists.

Unless you're seeing a developmental pead. They're waiting lists are usually shorter.

Jimjams, I am very lucky in that I have private medical insurance provided by my employers for my, my husband and our son so we have an appointment with a paediatic-neurologist next week - we had a six week wait for a private consultation. The insurers have told me that if it is a 'development' issue that my insurance will not cover further appointments but if it is a neurological issue then we will have cover - but I'm just hoping that it is neither and that he is diagised with having nothing more than a strong sense of self-preservation!

my interpretation of events is entirely different.I actually think the school has bent over backwards to try to enable your son to go on the trip so that he does not feel excluded or deprived. Many parents would , I suspect, welcome such input from their childrens'schools. You say yourself that they authorised an in-term time holiday at their discretion. Many schools wouldn't do this either. At worst, this sounds to me like a genuinely caring group of teachers being a bit zealous in their efforts.I can't imagine how they have the time!

Donnie, thank you for posting on how it could look from the other side and up until the first phone call from the deputy head, I totally agree with you - they went out of their way to accommodate ds and I thanked them for their offers. However, I feel that now the trip is over, discussing the matter over the phone again, then in person and writing about it in a letter is over the top and is coming across as being critical of our parenting of ds.

Ds is genuinely terrified of lions and tigers and did not want to go anywhere near them without me or his dad. We would have sent him without his agreement as he could have become hysterical on the trip and/or spoiled the trip for his classmates. As we did not have a lot of notice of the trip, neither of us could get the time off work in order to go with the school and so ds did not go. I have told the school that I would love to send him on future trips as I agree that they help in confidence building but we need more notice in case the trip is one which ds is very uncomfortable about going to without one of his parents. The trip is now over and done with and I don't see what the school hope to gain from persuing the matter other than antagonising us when we have been very vocal in our support of the school and, in particular, his class teacher up to now.

sis, thank goodness the end of term approaches

I think the school seem to have a hiddin agenda - not sinister, could be quite minor, but somewhere along the line they are not communicating their exact concerns to you. It could be the trip is a springboard for lots of classroom work (as mentioned before). It could be the teachers feel the trip was an important confidence building exercise for your son and they want to make sure he goes on others. It could be seen as way of getting to class to bond together.

I think you could ask them to explain exactly what the problem is. Just say you're not sure how they see things - can they clarify. That's not being confrontational or critical.

I am glad they are sorting out a calendar of trips so you get more warning.

Well when I mentioned the lack of notice, the deputy head said that the school often doesn't know until just a few days beforehand, what the exact date of a school trip is going to be - I was gobsmacked - all the planning that needs to go into these things and they don't know the date until a just a fews days before the event?!! Roll on the summer holidays!

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Ahhh that explains it! I was in slight shock. Oh yes I know all about the fact they won't cover developmental problems grrr grrr grrr double triple grrrr. They almost wouldn;t cover my autistic (but otherwise perfectly healthy son for anything). I was ready to throw the DDA at them.

I think schools tend to like children to participate so thwey have probably been a bit over zealous. A lot of people on this thrwad seem to think they were unreasonable to suggest that you took him for preparation (obviously the suggestion was daft as there was such short notice) but I'm not si sure that's unreasonable. I often get asked to do that sort of preparation with my son and it can help.

ONe suggestion for future school trips if they are close enough (and of course can be done around work) is to offer to be available to pick your son up if he gets distressed. We had a phone call during the last school trip as ds1 refused point blank to go into the aquarium. Screamed the place down. Sat quite happily on a bench outside with his LSA waiting to for dh to pick him up though. I suspect the school will be wanting me to be on standby for future trips as well. maybe a nice half way suggestion though for future iyswim. Then your son would know that he has a bail out option as well.

Thank you all for your understanding and support. I wwent to the meeting Tuesday and we discussed ds's behaviour and the deputy head (also special needs coordinator) said that ds was displaying a some of the symptoms of autism and suggested more meetings with myself, dh and ds's class teacher to start a plan to help ds cope with the underlying anxieties etc that cause this behaviour. They didn't really mention the trip other than to say that they thought ds was a bit over-anxious about it.

On Wednesday, ds and I saw the school nurse and the school doctor and they thought there was nothing of concern with ds.

On Thursday, ds and I had a two hour session with a paediatric neurologist who said that she thought ds had a 'neurological development disorder'. She said that he displayed some symptoms of autism but not enough to categorise him as within the autistic spectrum but that he was dyspraxic. I am confused - I thought dyspraxia was within the autism spectrum - I will need to do a lot more research now.

The neurologist seemed to be confident that ds would overcome the coordination , social and other anxiety problems if he had an occupational therapy(OT) assessment followed by some regular sessions with the OT. I feel very nervous right now and slightly weepy but not able to have a good cry yet. I know that it could be much worse and that, as a family, we are very lucky, but right now, I want my mum to give me a cuddle and she is on a cruise thousands of miles away!

Sis Here's a virtual hug from me.

AFAIK dyspraxia and autism can often overlap each other. You can be dyspraxic without being autistic and vice versa. My ds1 is autistic but not dyspraxic.

You will always get loads of extra advice and support over on the SN boards if you feel up to joining us. Take care. xxx

My best friends dd has dyspraxia but not autism, ADS. Things improved for her with OT, but there is a massive waiting list on the NHS.

Sorry to hear this sis.

Some people put dyspraxia within the spectrum but to be honest it is worlds apart from full blown autism, so I wouldn't worry too much about its autism links iyswim. Can I recommend a good book? It is called "A positive approach to autism" by Stella Waterhouse. It's not just about autism though - it looks at dyspraxia in quite a lot of detail along with things like dyslexia and OCD as well and explains where they all fit in together. It also goes into the sensory problems behind them all (they all have the same kind of root cause) - and I think that is very important in understanding what is going on. And if after reading it you want to talk more then Stella has her number in the back of the book- and she is lovely. She also talks a lot about anxiety and the different conditions. It was one of the first books I read (about a year or so before my son was diagnosed) and I found it very useful.

As coppertop says the 2 can overlap- my lucky ds1 is both autistic (pretty severely though) and has fine motor and verbal dyspraxia- gross motor skills aren't too bad.

Will you be able to get private OT? If you can I'd go straight to that- we waited 2 years for an OT appointment and to date have only had 2.

The dyscovery centre is worth looking at as well. Cant find their webiste but if you google dyscovery (with the y) you should get it.