Do top unis prefer students who went to academic/independent schools?

[questioner123]

Hi all,

My DD is looking at sixth forms and colleges around the area. She is interested in eventually studying law, at a Russell Group Uni. From what I've read online/heard, it seems that top unis prefer people who went to academic/private schools. Is this true? Our local college our DD likes, and it achieves satisfactory results (got an 100% pass rate though!), but is on the list for underperforming schools for university applications, so applicants from these places could receive contextual offers. How does this affect her chances of getting into say Oxbridge/Russell Group unis?

FWIW DD is doing a pure science degree at a top ten UK Uni (as per the C.U.G)
Her other offers were also from top 10 unis - all within 24 hours of her form being submitted

no interviews, no nothing
they cannot have taken her grade 8 distinction into account as it came through after the offers

certain unis may set great store by interviews and statements
many others clearly do not
the 5th Uni, despite sitting on her form for months clearly paid absolutely no attention to her PS or extra curricular.

She went to Symonds by the way.

ha! (I am an idiot &) I bow to Hoarybat's superior reading skills. Pirate did say 100 interviewers for each place, didn't she... eek, Pirate must never sleep, methinks.

Our candidates undergo 3 interviews. In one of those interviews, we go through the personal statement and will assess the candidate partly on how articulate and enthusiastic they are. A barren personal statement doesn't tend to go down very well.

This isn't what happens in many Oxbridge subjects.

Being articulate certainly isn't particularly relevant to my (science) subject.

Yes, there is often a third interview by a non-expert (college tutor). But it is more focussed on general academic enthusiasm than demonstrating leadership, teamwork, responsibility. Filtering by the latter would throw out some of the most amazingly strong academic students.

But I know for a fact that non-professional oxbridge courses adopt a similar strategy.

Umm, no you don't know that all "non-professional" Oxbridge courses adopt a similar strategy because we don't. (BTW I have also never heard non-vocational courses called "non-professional".)

Nope my exTutor at a top Oxbridge college once said he preferred students from State schools "as if they got all As he knew they were smart".
Lots of top Unis go out of their way to try to get more State school and especially Comprehensive from less "traditional backgrounds" in.

WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

Super-curricular as opposed to extracurricular is activities/learning over and above what is expected on the GCSE/A levels course that directly relates to the degree subject that the student wants to read at uni.

For example, for medicine they will be more interested to see that you have worked in a care home or similar, for law they may want to see that you have volunteered in a law centre or CAB, for education they may want to see that you have worked with children eg. a a helper at Brownies etc.

Super-curricular would also include having won prizes or scholarship in the field such as engineering prizes that are available.

This is opposed to extra-curricular which in some way could be seen as past-times or hobbies such as music at a high grade, high level sports etc which although are indicators that the student is a well rounded individual as would volunteering in Africa etc/DofE. I am not saying that these are of no value to the student but not necessarily of value to their application.

In fact nowadays so many actually do all this it almost is the norm rather than the exception and becomes almost irrelevant.

The Personal Statement should show a real desire to study the subject for which they are applying.

As a Partner in a law firm my DH now looks for those who have had any form of paid employment whilst at school or during uni summer holidays as this would indicate a level of commitment to getting up, getting somewhere on time and earning their own money even if it is a job at McDonalds or cleaning at a school.

Going back to the very original question of the OP students who obtain good grades at a State school will be looked upon favourably to fill both quotas and the fact that they will not necessarily have been spoon fed like some students from independents might have. It will depend on which 6th Form it is though because some super selective 6th Forms would be treated the same way as independents would have. Also for those going private to GCSE and then switching to State 6th Form the unis do realise you have done this!

Dear OP
Medicine interviews
Oxbridge interviews
some subjects at other Unis interview

and these threads always fill up with the usual scare mongerers who make parents think that
without DofE Gold plus 3 x grade 8 plus months of work experience and volunteering and teatime Mandarin the kids are doomed

back in the real world ......

Ok, so Pirate is in Vet School admissions
not really relevant to
(a) OPs question
(b) the thousands of less narrow courses at universities in the UK

IME (have known people involved in admissions, not involved directly), Oxbridge are mainly interested in stellar academics plus a real passion for the subject. Extracurriculars are not highly valued, unless they are either directly related to the subject, or of an exceptionally high standard (e.g. competitive sport at international level).

IIRC about 1 in 5 Cambridge applicants go on to receive an offer.

I would be interested to know what subject/ University ProfessionalPirate interviews for!

Pirate
I did not advance search you.
I put "100 interviews per uni place" into google and the answer leapt at me.

Ah yes, Vet School would make sense!

Ta1kinPeace re scaremongering - I know right - that is why I was keen to say that actually all the extra curricular is not as important as some parents think it is.

The Statement (whichever school you went to) should show your desire to read the subject you are applying for whether it is medicine or performing arts, education or theology.

For many subjects Oxbridge really isn't at all interested in extra curriculars. My (reasonably impressive but just "normal Oxbridge") wasn't even mentioned at interview. They asked me questions only about my subject.

Dh's extra curriculars were even more impressive. (He was an international at his sport at the time of the interview.) 6 months after he started he went to a supervision right before a training session (so in his kit). His Director of Studies (who had interviewed him) said "oh - I didn't know you did blah de blah. I used to do that a bit when I was younger."

Obviously really stuck in his mind!

allthebest
my point is that in the case of DD and a lot of her friends from a mahoosive 6th form
statements meant absolutely and utterly nothing
as offers were issued within hours based on digitally read grades

DD (and many of her friends) were pretty gutted that the hours of stress and weeks of work clearly counted for zilch if the core grades ticked the box

DS is taking a much more rather too laid back approach

Actually thinking about it I did ask my DoS once whether all the extra curriculars made any difference. He said that they liked people who had something other than academics in their life as if you are having to work every hour in existence to get the grades then you are not suited to Oxbridge.

So presumably you could write "I like watching all the soap operas and ensure that I never miss a single episode" or "I enjoy porn and spend at least 2 hours a day masturbating" then that would get you a nice big tick!

Something that you can give up when work gets really busy.......

For maths applications do Oxford care about extra curricular stuff?

Lol TalkinPeace. You best me to it. I couldn't think of a single course test interviews a hundred people for a place and I am slightly obsessed with admissions statistics. 😂 Vet school admissions are something on their own Thank goodness.

Op. If I were you I'd encourage your DD to look at all her local schools and see where she thinks she would do well at and enjoy. It really depends on her abilities and work ethic. I wouldn't overthink. I really wouldn't worry too much about extra curricular activities. The main thing is that she does well in her A'levels.

Universities have to have clear and transparent admissions policies and shouldn't be 'secretly' favouring any group. Perhaps your daughter can have a look at the admissions policies for a few of the universities that she might possibly be interested in to get a rough idea.

Typo that not test.

For maths applications do Oxford care about extra curricular stuff?

No, not at all.

OP, I hope you are getting the picture.

1. That there is no bias against pupils from poorly performing state schools. Instead great effort are often made to both encourage them to apply, and to level the playing field when considering the application.

1. You need to read entrance requirements for each course. Don't rely on categorical statements on MN.

I agree extra curricular does not count for much for maths. But that is one extreme. Vet and Med are probably the other. My observation is that Universities want students who will thrive, and though strong potential is the most important, they will to a greater or lesser extent will see achievement or community engagement as a positive, suggesting the student has wider experience, the ability to juggle, and can cope with a the heavier University workload.

PS will matter for some courses. At this point every year, and again this, someone posts on the Higher Education board, bewildered as to why their DC has not received a response despite a realistic application backed by good grades. The answer again was economics. Some subjects are surprisingly competitive.

Again observation suggests that you can expect to be interviewed for sought after courses in physics, chemistry and engineering.

The University should outline its admissions process. And the best advice DS received was from a recent graduate in his subject, who was able to outline the strengths and weaknesses of the courses DS was considering.

Again observation suggests that you can expect to be interviewed for sought after courses in physics, chemistry and engineering.

Physics and chemistry are struggling to get students. Many highly respected RG courses are in clearing every year at ABB, BBB. They are "interviewing" to encourage students to firm them - not to select students.

Check the offer rates if in doubt of this - if 80-90% of applicants are getting offers (which is the case for many maths, physics and chemistry courses outside the very top few places) then the only selection is on grade profiles.

Certainly Imperial and UCL will interview and reject. So not just Oxbridge. Manchester seem to as well.

Elsewhere interviews pose a problem DC are frustrated at having to miss school during a crucial term, plus pay for travel, yet do not dare not accept the interview offer in case it means they don't get an offer.

Yes, Imperial, UCL and Manchester are amongst the top ones for physics. Manchester in particular is expanding at the expense of other RG physics departments (Brian Cox/graphene factors). You can certainly see which departments are more selective in the offer rates.

In general for pretty much any subject if you apply to the top 5 courses you can expect them all to be selective. For maths/physics/chemistry, if you pick a course that is top 10-15 or below, it's likely that this course is offering to all qualified applicants without looking in detail at PS etc. For more over subscribed subjects even courses in the top 10-15 may well still be selecting on more than grades.