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St Paul's in Barnes v Kings in Wimbledon 11+

35 replies

NKd1165571505430 · 01/02/2017 22:25

Hi, I am looking for some advice from parents of boys who may have in recent years joined either of these schools at 11 plus, how have your boys enjoyed it and if you identify any particular pros and cons to either school? Thank you!

OP posts:
cakeisalwaystheanswer · 27/04/2017 09:51

Have the numbers going to USA dropped at St Pauls this year? They have published a combined numer of Oxbridge offers and USA offers of 85, if 72 are Oxbridge that leaves only 13 to the USA. That is low compared to previous the previous year which saw 28 went.

This is personal interest. I would love to send mine to the USA for the experience but I know a few friends DCs who have gone and with travel and everything its costing £100k pa for 4 years! They are obviously very wealthy but they are complaining about the cost and we couldn't justify it. I just wonder if it was a SW London fad and has gone out of fashion. DH's workfriend's DS turned down Oxford for Yale so it wasn't because they couldn't get the right offers here.

Mominatrix · 27/04/2017 12:45

cake - perhaps the number is not the final one? I seem to remember that the numbers referred to above were published just after Early Acceptance decisions in the US went out. Final numbers to the top US unis would not have been available until April, so perhaps that is why they seem low?

cakeisalwaystheanswer · 27/04/2017 12:58

Momi - thanks, as I said just interested. I would love my DCs to be able to go but to be possible we should probably have stopped at one!

Emilie1 · 14/05/2017 22:09

Hello,

Could anyone recommend an English and Maths tutor for Hampton School?

Please feel free to PM me.

Thank you very much

Emilie

Eastpoint · 14/05/2017 22:19

A number of parents I know are very disappointed with SPS, I would not recommend it for a thoughtful quiet boy who is not sporty. The sport provision is good for those in the top teams but not for those who are not as good (e.g. the golfers are not those who play golf at school but those who play at the weekend, when there were table tennis matches they did not choose the boys who played table tennis at school in games but those who are good at sport). I had high hopes of the new head as he did not seem as traditional as some heads but his focus seems to very much Oxbridge & First XV. This year there are about 85 Oxbridge offers iirc. The vertical tutoring system can lead to a tutor being overloaded with pupils from the same year (when a tutor leaves and boys request a particular tutor they seem to be added to that group regardless of the size). Only the top 50/190 boys in the year are allowed to do further maths although others might also benefit.

I know that I am not the only parent who regrets sending their child there and wish I had been brave enough to move him.

MrsGuyOfGisbo · 15/05/2017 17:37

My DS was/is quiet and not sporty ( as are a number of his friends) and has thrived at SPS - but of course if you find a child is unhappy at any school then you can move them... But as in the old fable, you may find he is also unhappy elsewhere...

BigGreenOlives · 15/05/2017 18:04

That's what my husband says...

Needmoresleep · 16/05/2017 10:24

Mrs Guy I have known several kids who have flourished following a change of school. I am sure you did not mean to, but it sounds as if you believe that a problem with a school implies a problem with a child.

A decade ago but we turned down a place at SPS for DS, mainly because DD took part in an extra curricular activity at SPS. I mentioned a friend of DS's to a couple of mother's who had Colet boys of the same age. The reaction of both was the same. "Oh he is not very bright". The boy was 10 and quite probably brighter than my son, and we did not want our son to be under the same sort of pressure. One mother was able to tell me exactly where her boy sat in the year group and his plans to work his way up. Another parent, who decided not to move their child from CC to SPS, told me of some quite shocking shenanigans to get children onto sports teams, with her quiet son losing out.

There is an element of extreme competitiveness in West London. It is a minority and some, I think, is driven by the importance of things like class-placement, leadership positions, school reputation, and extra-curricular when it comes to US applications. Some is cultural. One lovely Russian mother once asked me to help her understand the downplaying of a child's performance relative to other children in the class. It was so different to her own experience where it was really important to be top...in every subject.

DD later described the atmosphere in her EC activity as "toxic". The assumption seemed to be that if you was not at SPS or SPGS, you were not intelligent enough, and if you were not intelligent and not headed for a world top 5 University, you were not worth knowing. Good enough was absolutely not good enough. (DD was dyslexic so not in the competition anyway, though by the time she was offered a place for Westminster sixth form she was able to be bemused when others suggested that she had got in because Westminster was not nearly academic enough for SPGS girls to consider.) And shockingly parents, as well as their children, continued to be happy to offer opinions on other children's intelligence.

I am sure that it is quite possible to go through either SPS or SPGS without noticing this. And perhaps only obvious when it comes to the sharing out of sixth form leadership positions, which the US bound kids will need in a way that those aiming for UK Universities don't. Several people also told me that SPS was a far nicer school than CC.

I would though be unhappy if a DC in a super selective school was denied a chance to take double maths. DS was in the bottom double maths set for A level at Westminster, and took it mainly because he wanted to learn as much maths as possible at school before he started a degree course with a significant maths content. In his case something clicked and he has got better and better. Others, who were very much top of his year have faded. In a couple of cases we suspect the super performance up to A level was based on very hard work, and possibly quite a lot of tutoring. (We later discovered that one very bright East Asian friend of DS' went to a full-time tutorial college every holiday. Atypical perhaps, but perhaps an explanation of why DS has been able to find his academic feet at University in a way he did not at school.)

There is a lot of pressure on some kids from the West London catchment. Schools cannot prevent this, but there is a lot they can do to help ensure that competition within a school is downplayed, with education and personal development valued, rather than emphasis on getting the grades and the sports team success.

123missy · 16/05/2017 15:31

A very interesting thread but it makes very sad reading. It does actually put me off London private day schools as they probably all have an element of the 'toxic' culture you mention. Obviously some more than others.

I just wondered what school you would of considered moving your DS to Eastpoint?

If children in London go to boarding school instead do you think you manage to avoid this 'toxic' culture?

Eastpoint · 16/05/2017 18:49

I don't know, maybe somewhere like Richmond College of Further Education? I think it would be easier to move somewhere where it was a fresh start than joining an established year group. Some boys moved, I think they went to Latymer & St Benedicts, someone else went to Eton. Pupils move around more than you'd think, someone joined his year pre GCSEs from Winchester.

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