feeling a bit low about my kids and friends

[underdogtown]

Ds is 12, golden hearted, funny, very tall, and very bright. He is shy and can be sometimes socially awkward, but not always, and when he opens up, is a lovely friend and great company. DD, 8, is emotionally quite young, struggling at school, again, very kind, funny and desperate to be a loyal friend. We have made a mess of Ds's schooling - first went to a very alternative school which suited him very young but then didn't suit him at all, then switched him to tiny primary where we live in year 5, where he did well academically, but his only good friend left after a term and he struggled socially, and he is now in a brilliant prep school but only for two years [as we didn't get into a good comp in our area] where the teaching is excellent, but again he feels the odd one out socially, and he has only had a term so we are hoping things will change, but he is feeling a bit low about having no friends. DD is sometimes excluded socially at school is much happier than she used to be but we can still see a group of girls who exclude her [parties, etc] and she sort of accepts it now but it pains me to see it, and she is bright but just switches off at school, which we are very worried about, and hope to be able to afford to send her privately, but have no idea if that will help her socially. DS is very crushed at the moment, has he has got into an excellent boys school for Year 9, but didn't get into the v relaxed and indie senior school he wanted to go to, they cited a strange piece of creative writing, too much talking on trial day, and not following instructions, which he is completely baffled about - he said he found the work very easy but tried to be humble and definitely didn't talk more than anyone else - and it certainly doesn't sound like him. He got an excellent reference from current school. So worried about where to send him inYear 9, and I hate to see him feeling low, when he is such a lovely kid. Sorry, this must all sound very garbled, late night worrying! But don't know how to help them both socially, and what to do about their schooling in the long run. Any advie appreciated!

[underdogtown]

I wonder if it was PhilODox, and will never know for sure. Would have to be the one place he had set his heart on

Just want to find a place where they can both be themselves, and have their potential tapped. Prepared for some ups and downs, not looking for something perfect, although some people here seem to think that I am !

[underdogtown]

and I hear you re work/children/sleep! What was that about the default parent?

[Ciutadella]

I'm going to take a slightly different line from another poster. Re ds I'd agree hang in there, and definitely encourage the rugby. It may be a good idea to go to some matches to meet some parents - never sure how much difference it makes, but it can't hurt.
I'm not familiar with what FIFA is - does sound as though it would be good if ds could feign/develop an interest! What would happen if you and dh started a game between you - could that lure him in?

Where I differ from another poster is re your dd - that does sound a negative/not very positive 'friendship environment' for her if eg younger girls are telling her off. Still, your alternatives are not great - I agree there is no point in moving to another very small school. But if things don't improve this year with the teacher's input, you might want to try an alternative for yrs 5 and 6. Could you move to a 'larger school' catchment area which would still be practical for ds to go to his excellent secondary school in yr 9? A bit drastic I know, but it's sounding as though you're quite rural, which tends to mean smaller state primary schools?

[underdogtown]

Yes I agree with you Ciutadella. It isn't the best environment for her, though she is much happier this year with a nice teacher and starting to make tentative friendships with two girls. But she has been very unhappy for several years now, and in some ways I feel guilty for making her stay for so long. I am thinking about changing her for year 5 and 6, but have been trying to work out if we can afford private for her [it feels v unfair to have one in private and one in state, though really I just want to find somewhere they are happy, private or not] . So a move would be the only way. As we are self employed mortgages are a nightmare, especially at moment, and moving into town from rural means higher house prices. These are all the thoughts that whirl around my head every night! Thanks for bearing with them!

[underdogtown]

the other thing about ds is that puberty has knocked him for six, and early. He towers above his peers, has a deep voice [has to sing an octave below the others] and just feels awkward and clumsy. Hopefully they will all catch up soon! He has always gravitated towards kids in the year above, being sept born.

[Ciutadella]

If things don't pick up for dd (and it sounds as though they might, which is good), could you get permission from your mortgage lender to rent your house out, and then rent somewhere in town for a few years? Might have to be smaller, but it's more important for dd to be happy at school. I realise you may not have a particularly thriving rental market where you are if it's very rural so that may not be feasible.
Meanwhile I'd keep pushing the extra curricular activities for dd. I do think it's possible for people to underestimate quite how tricky friendship issues at primary school can be.

Yes, the other boys will catch up with ds - so at least that is temporary!

[underdogtown]

Ah I'm ahead of you in my whirlwind of thoughts Ciutadella - we have a big dog so renting tricky. Is it just me or do I seem to find a dead end down every though track? All this whilst pushing my career as hard as I can.

[underdogtown]

would like to stay in area for 2 years for ds to go until yr 9, but at same time have to apply to other schools for yr 9 for him and other schools for dd too, and now might need to look further afield, in different counties for that, which would require a move. Gawd.

[Ciutadella]

Well, don't rule out renting with a dog although I realise it can be trickier - there may be a dog 'premium' to pay even where the ll will allow it, but it is not completely out of the question (I would have thought). Why not ask rental agencies in the likely destination if it is a complete no go?

It can be difficult where the right area for one dc schoolwise, is the wrong one for another - and as you say it obviously may not make sense to move ds just yet. Sounds as though what you could do first is:

1a. Identify possible alternative schools for ds at yr 9. Go and look at them with ds? Can you still apply though - will your ds' prep school support applications if you have already accepted the school that did offer ds a place, or don't you have to accept firmly yet?

1b. Identify secondary schools you think would suit dd. Emphasis on largeish cohort of girls. (Something to bear in mind if going co ed.)

See if any of them are in the same area!

Also, are there any larger private schools where you live, that you could afford for dd now, if you don't think you could get her into one of the larger state primaries?

[underdogtown]

Thanks Ciutadella. It helps to break it down. Will pursue dog/renting possibilities, one agency was very snotty about it, but may be able to find others. We love our 1950's semi - we've done loads of work to it and it backs onto countryside and feels like home, but we may have to uproot.

We have accepted the place at excellent school for ds, there was a deadline, and paid deposit. I would like him to go in many ways, but he would like to possibly consider others too, so will have to ask current school for advice.

I have an idea of a school that might suit dd, but it is private. So need to make sure I can afford it. I am hoping I might be able to do that by next year. And also depends if we stay in this area.

Honestly ready to move to Holland or something at this point! [aren't they all v liberal and tolerant and lovely - not generalising at all].

[Beebeeeight]

Not meaning to be unkind so I apologise if it comes out like that written down but to me it reads as if you are projecting some of your own issues into your DCs.

Eg you use very over the top language to describe your DCs. The school maybe has labelled you as 'hard work' and thus rejected your ds.

My advice is to relax a bit.
Ds is at a good school, doing well and has 2 good friends out of school. Seriously don't sweat the small stuff.

With DD girl group dynamics can be hard in any school/ any peer group. As long as she's not being bullied just do stuff to boost her self esteem.

Don't be rushing to assess/label her academically if she is progressing at her own level.

Your DCs will be picking up on your anxieties and that could become more of a problem than anything you've mentioned about schools/friends.

[underdogtown]

Don't think I've described them in any over the top way.

I am definitely a worrier, but this really isn't about me projecting. I keep telling the kids to be confident in themselves, that they will find their niche one day, and we have v frank discussions about all our flaws and plus points. I can see how you might think that, about anxieties, from a series of written posts, hard though to assess without actually being face to face.

I didn't say anything to the school about my ds, or ask any difficult questions, etc, so not sure how they could have picked up that I am hard work.

[beatricequimby]

I know people who have rented with a dog. So don't rule it out.

What is your ds's preferred option other than the school he didn't get into?

[underdogtown]

he doesn't have one beatrice. I guess we need to look at some other schools! All other private ones single sex in this area. And good comps we are not in catchment for.

[beatricequimby]

Don't places at the comps come up after the start of year 7 as the odd person moves away? Worth a few phone calls?

[underdogtown]

yes we will definitely ring and ask beatrice, but completely unknown at this point. V over subscribed around here!

[PhilODox]

Not sure how much rugby they play in Netherlands!

Cuitadella (love menorca btw), FIFA is the most utterly boring computer game in existence. It is updated every year, so presumably they're on FIFA2017 now, but you basically manage a team and have to win the league/cups etc.

[underdogtown]

LOL yes sorry forgot to explain FIFA. I am not very up to speed with it but I think that sums it up! Hence ds's frustration.

yes there is that, re rugby. But they are ALL happy and fulfilled. I am quite sure of it.

[BertrandRussell]

And you won't even consider state school. Sad, that.

[underdogtown]

Bertrand. Are you sure you've read my posts? [not passive aggressive honestly]

[PhilODox]

Bertrand- she said they aren't in catchment for.them!

[Ciutadella]

Ah ok, so that's FIFA. Could you purport to have unreined enthusiasm for gaming against your dh, and maybe rope ds in to help you manage your dh's team? I know he shouldn't have to be anyone but himself, but shared computer interests really can help as an intro to friendships.

Looking on the bright side, you may actually find the slightly 'formal' school is a better fit for your ds. Relaxed co-ed independent can sometimes mean 'ultra cool kids' - not saying this one does, but there are pros and cons to both styles. Unless your ds is a total hippy he may find it's not too bad at the more formal school. I know what you mean about single sex though, being a natural co-ed preferrer, but as long as he has the chance to meet girls outside school this may not be the end of the world. Local rugby club with girls' teams?

I do agree with beebee that friendship dynamics can be difficult at any school, (for boys as well as girls). But the uniquely difficult thing about a small school is that there is such a small pool of peers that you may genuinely not meet anyone you can click with - particularly if you're a bit 'quirky'. And there is no escape if there is one group that you don't get on with. At a larger school you can migrate to another lot of girls if necessary (as it sometimes is!)

[underdogtown]

Yes, I am starting to see that larger schools have advantages in terms of peer group potential. I think he needs structure definitely, just hope a very smart formal school will have a diverse group of boys. And I am [honestly!]still considering good comps, if we can get into them.

[happygardening]

"He is the loveliest brightest kid"
OP there will always be lovely bright kids who don't get into schools that parents/schools assumed was almost a done deal. Children are not machines they have off days, interviewers are also not machines they have likes and dislikes, on the day your DS might just not have been as polished as the school wanted. If it was a very competitive entry then the school can afford to be very fussy. I always took the view that if my DS hadn't got into a school he was being interviewed for then it was because the interviewer genuinely believed he wouldn't thrive there. I think the stuff about the "damaged " person you know is a bit of a red herring.
He has got into another school again assuming it was a competitive entry the interviewer clearly thought he'll thrive, embrace this, be positive. Why don't you go and have a look round, be honest discuss your concerns about it being too formal, start another thread (maybe under a different name) see what other think/know about the school. Maybe it's not as formal as you think, people often have completely the wrong impression of schools, or perhaps it has other positive features, focus on them, trust me no where is perfect, you registered him and sent him for the interview so you obviously thought it had some good things going for it. Or if after investigation you still really aren't happy and feels it's ethos is really out of step with yours, look at others, don't send him there if you really believe it's the wrong place. It's inevitable wherever you send him there will be periods when at the very least it's not going brilliantly, if you already unhappy with you choice IME (I used to work in the independent sector) then your going to struggle to sort things out and get a positive outcome.
I also agree that it's easier to make friends in bigger schools, there's simply a wider selection of friends with different interests. Also some children thrive on being different, not following the crowd, not knowing anything about football or X boxes, being free to be themselves, IMO and IME they if possible need a school where this is not only positively encouraged but also embraced by the other pupils and that being allowed to be yourself is seen as very important by all.

[underdogtown]

It wasn't an interview though, it was a trial day. He was super excited about it. what they said doesn't sound like him at all. And to be fair I did qualify my statement about him by saying I know everyone would say that! Again, hard to explain on an anonymous forum. But it is all a bit odd, even if you don't want to take my word for it. Of course children can have off days - and he certainly does too. But he came back very happy and buoyant. And can't go into detail about the other issue so will have to leave it there.

Good idea to ask about other school under different name. I know it is an excellent school, and think it would be a good fit in many ways, but would be good to know more about it, still feel a bit blind on it. Will give it some time.

And in admiration of Ciutadella's suggestion of me and dh starting up an interest in FIFA! I'll suggest it to him [ he hates football even more than ds]