feeling a bit low about my kids and friends

[underdogtown]

Ds is 12, golden hearted, funny, very tall, and very bright. He is shy and can be sometimes socially awkward, but not always, and when he opens up, is a lovely friend and great company. DD, 8, is emotionally quite young, struggling at school, again, very kind, funny and desperate to be a loyal friend. We have made a mess of Ds's schooling - first went to a very alternative school which suited him very young but then didn't suit him at all, then switched him to tiny primary where we live in year 5, where he did well academically, but his only good friend left after a term and he struggled socially, and he is now in a brilliant prep school but only for two years [as we didn't get into a good comp in our area] where the teaching is excellent, but again he feels the odd one out socially, and he has only had a term so we are hoping things will change, but he is feeling a bit low about having no friends. DD is sometimes excluded socially at school is much happier than she used to be but we can still see a group of girls who exclude her [parties, etc] and she sort of accepts it now but it pains me to see it, and she is bright but just switches off at school, which we are very worried about, and hope to be able to afford to send her privately, but have no idea if that will help her socially. DS is very crushed at the moment, has he has got into an excellent boys school for Year 9, but didn't get into the v relaxed and indie senior school he wanted to go to, they cited a strange piece of creative writing, too much talking on trial day, and not following instructions, which he is completely baffled about - he said he found the work very easy but tried to be humble and definitely didn't talk more than anyone else - and it certainly doesn't sound like him. He got an excellent reference from current school. So worried about where to send him inYear 9, and I hate to see him feeling low, when he is such a lovely kid. Sorry, this must all sound very garbled, late night worrying! But don't know how to help them both socially, and what to do about their schooling in the long run. Any advie appreciated!

[Gruach]

OP I'm still feeling, and desperately empathising with, what seems to be a sense of displacement on your part. (Is the clue in your name?) And (although it's not what this thread is primarily about) I agree with HG - choosing boarding is actually a fantastic way to get round this. D'you feel like considering it? (We can talk you through your options . Bursary possibilities etc.) Your DS is already at a prep - what /where do they prepare for?

[littlepinkmouseofsugar]

Re your DD, does she belong to any extracurricular groups? We've found that having a good base of out of school friends we met through toddler groups years back, extracurricular things, neighbouring children etc really helps as we plan ahead to see them in school holidays or on weekends so we can look forward to seeing them if school isn't working socially.

And they can then share common interests which is really nice, rather than just being friends because they are all stuck in the same class at school as such. Also, we then tend to see the same children e.g. from ballet, at other local things as well which is nice and strengthens friendships if there's someone you've spotted to wave to at a concert/fete/event.

Some sports e.g. gymnastics/dance etc can require a lot of sessions per week if a child is enthusiastic, so we've found one of our children feels part of that 'tribe' as such and identifies with them, is excited so see an older or younger gym child when out and about shopping etc locally. It's really helped re self esteem issues and also makes for a buffer as such when there are friendship issues at school as you can talk about the lovely friends she'll see after school/on the weekend at gym.

[BertrandRussell]

My ds is not a particularly good fit at his school and his main friendship group comes from an extra curricular activity. But it took him a while to accept this- and was sad about not finding friends at school. He is happy now with a few people he gets on with OK but doesn't see out of school and friends from his club. But it is harder to keep in touch and more taxi-ing for me.

[RubyWinterstorm]

The very simple advice to let yourself be guided by what your DC are GOOD at, rather than what they struggle with his has been gold for us.

For DS1: he loves tech and computing, so he goes to Tech Camp (an MN recommendation!) and fencing. He made friends at both places (no "popular" football kid in sight), this has made him gain confidence (also at school)and helped him (and us) realise he does not actually lack in social skills, he just needed to find "his people".

We also realised a lot of learning happens outside school, and shilst the whole package deal of a private school sounds tempting, going to a comp (shorter days, home ag 3:20)) means there is the possibility to shape the rest of the day to suit his interests (coding, music, fencing) . This also means school is not so all-important.

Yes, it is more work and involves a fair bit of taxiing , but this set up works well (if you have the time!)

It's all a bit of learning curve!

[underdogtown]

Beatrice - ds wanted the school he didn't get into [ everyone who knows him said it would be a good fit for him, including current teachers] so he is a bit heartbroken, and we are baffled - he is very much like the kids we know who go there. Worried it is more to do with us as parents than him but nothing we can do. He wants a friendly, creative, co-ed school that will challenge him. Not a huge range of options for that where we live - some good comps with v expensive catchment areas, and some v posh public schools, mostly single sex. Not a criticism, they are excellent.

Gruach - never thought about boarding - I would miss ds terribly, and thought it was beyond our affordability. Know so little about that whole world, would just feel out of my depth in making a decision about it.

Betrand/Ruby - the problem is his school day is so long not much time for other activities nowadays. And he is v tired on weekends. Permanent battle with getting him to sleep enough, he wakes early and never wants to go to bed. He adores the two friends he has outside school but they don't live particularly close by - when I see him with those kids, I feel sad he doesn't have kids near him like that. Tech camp sounds interesting though! He loves gaming but has very specific interests and I am actually in admiration of the games he likes, very creative and complex ethically.

I need to do more extracurricular stuff with dd PhilOdox. Unfortunately I find it hard to get her to things after school and work. DH often does school pick up but then has to work from home afterwards.

[underdogtown]

Oh and beatrice, dd has only just started connecting with these two girls at school and it is still a bit touch and go with them. But it is better than nothing. Trying to arrange play dates and things but still a bit of a struggle. She is very extrovert and gregarious and has quite a silly but funny sense of humour. Perhaps in a larger school she would find her niche. But moving in Year 4/5 is a tricky move.

[underdogtown]

I am quite keen in some ways for ds to go to the excellent senior school where he has got in, which was, as I have told him, quite an achievement [especially with no prep/tutoring]. But he is a bit wobbly about it, he is just worried about how formal it will all be and whether there will be anyone there he will click with.

[Gruach]

Quick answer re my specialist subject ...

Well, he wouldn't be going for another couple of years ...

And, as I said above, if you can't afford the expensive catchment you may ( may ) qualify for some help with fees (bursary) - if you found the right school.

(Trust me I wouldn't have mentioned it if your posts didn't suggest it might be a goer. You're so miserable about being too poor for whatever school - having something new to think about might cheer you up. And then everyone else might be happier.)

[Ciutadella]

Ok, let me start by saying sympathies, and I don't think you have made a mess of things, it can be very difficult to get it right and you've done your best.

DS - so, he has got into an excellent school in Yr 9. At the moment he may not be that happy about it, but things can change and by the time he gets there he may feel a lot better about it. Not getting into the other school is disappointing, but as another pp says, focus on the successes and adopt a 'their loss!' approach to the less successful applications! Interested that they gave unsolicited reasons - I haven't ever received unsolicited feedback with a school rejection, and wouldn't ask for it!

I agree with pp that a term is not long to find friends in an established yr 7 prep - the most 'alpha' dc will do so of course, but many will not. I agree that at this stage an interest in football can be all important for d boys' friendships, but I think that does change in early/mid teens (and to some extent has improved with the advent of computer games, so better than 25 yrs ago!) Things may well improve over the next couple of terms.

Do you know any other dparents there with yr 7 dbs who ds gets on with ok - perhaps you could engineer a couple of Sunday lunches or 'come over for a drink'? But even if that doesn't work your ds obviously has friendship making skills as he has two good friends outside school, so it's possible he will just make friends more slowly. Can you ask the school to help at all?

Your dd - is there a larger state primary around? I think dparents are often quite good at picking up on the very subtle issues about friendship and if you feel she is being excluded or regarded as 'naive', she might do well at a school with a bigger peer group. Certainly go for a larger cohort at secondary school rather than a very small one. Agree with all the pp about extra curricular activities - they can be such a refuge from difficult school social issues. Academically, have you thought about having a private ed psych assessment?

[underdogtown]

Gruach - I don't think I'm that miserable! I have late night worries, always have done, haven't resorted to MN for a while though, and it is good to get other people's opinions on it. Actually my career is going pretty well after a lengthy stagnation so much happier than I used to be

Cituadella - I have told the school about it - I am so bloody grateful to them in so many ways, for the great teaching [he is really enjoying classes] and for helping him blossom in rugby, we'll see what they can do. He doesn't make it easy for himself - he gets quite defensive in his belief that no one is like him etc. For example, they are 'all' x box apparently, whilst he is ps4, which is an uncrossable chasm socially. Hardly know any parents and he refused to suggest anyone I could invite over, but hopefully that might change over next term.


Re unsolicited/solicited reasons - dh spoke to them, not sure if he asked for reasons or if they gave them anyway.

I think one of my new year resolutions is to get dd assessed. Need to get a recommendation of a good one, and get her some tutoring [again, hope to find someone good.] A bigger school might help, but again, all about catchment around here, primary too. And don't want to go out of the frying pan into the fire.

Maybe we do need to move.

[beatricequimby]

Is he on a waiting list for the school he didn't get into?

[underdogtown]

no, they don't have a waiting list, and they have a rolling selection. He is the loveliest and brightest kid, it just doesn't make sense - I know everyone would say that, but if you knew him...ah well.

[Ciutadella]

Would an x box be a good investment?! Even if ds isn't initially interested, your dd might enjoy having a go, and gradually ds might be persuaded. Sad but true that these things can make such a difference to friendships...at least on a superficial level, which can be worthwhile while waiting for deeper friendships to grow.
If ds enjoys rugby presumably he's in a school team - so friendships may develop through that?

I do understand about the frying pan/fire issue re dd's school. It's usually the case that things could be worse, and that the alternatives aren't perfect either, which means the 'safe' thing can be to stay. You say the primary school is 'tiny' which suggests to me no more than about 10 girls in her year. In which case I think for a 'quirky' girl that can simply be too few to find like minded peers. It can be a problem for the 'socially younger' girls as well - many dgirls by yr 4/5 are into make up/clothes etc (yes really!) which can make it hard for the uninterested to fit in, but the more dc there are, the more likely they are to find friends.

I don't think yr 4/5 is necessarily a bad time to change though - particularly if you have other, academic, concerns as well. Maybe have a look around alternative state primary schools - no harm done if they don't turn out to seem to be the answer?

[underdogtown]

I have a hunch it is to do with us parents. But who knows. His current school pretty shocked too, and he have been brilliantly supportive.

[underdogtown]

Less than 10 girls in her year Ciutadella! Mixed year group, and the younger girls in the year seem to pick up on the older girls' behaviour towards her, and tell her off all the time. The problem re alternative primary schools is there is one nearby but also very small, so worried it will be same scenario again, and others further away are catchment dependent and very full. This year her teacher is much more aware of other children's behaviour towards her, I could kiss her for being so kind, hasn't happened before.

[underdogtown]

re x box - it is all fifa they are into apparently, and thus he refuses. Gah!

[Ciutadella]

Did the school interview the parents as well as the dc op? Although the reasons given certainly don't suggest it was anything to do with the parents at all.

Hmm, I sense that the rejection has really upset you - and I totally understand/empathise with that. That reaction is very understandable I think! I think when it happens you do have to move a bit into annoyed or 'who cares?' or 'how dare they!' mode or it can as you say make you feel quite low. The school entrance procedure is all very unpredictable, and I can think of many many people who didn't get into particular schools who are now very happy and successful! Imv the only sensible thing to do with a rejection is throw it in the bin!

[Gruach]

I have a hunch it is to do with us parents

Heaven's sake!

Spit. It. Out.

(I do honestly want to be of help ...)

[PhilODox]

The mind boggles- surely all they're mainly interested in is are you solvent, and are you decorous.
You're not in politics, are you?

[underdogtown]

sorry Gruach, just a bit worried about saying anything that will make us too identifiable!

[LetsSplashMummy]

It sounds like DS could start going to club rugby and making friends through that - you will get to know the parents and see which schools they go to. The people like him must be somewhere. Your description of your DS sounds just like my ILs describe my DH when he was young - he was so much happier in co-ed in his sixth form and tends to gravitate towards female company even now, so I'd really think about that as a priority.

I also wouldn't worry enormously about DD, it sounds like she is not too bothered about the cliche and you shouldn't catastrophize it. These things wax and wane and most 8 yr old friendships are fairly fluid. I also think being in the bottom group for one subject isn't the end of the world as 1/3 of the class will be (assuming 3 groups).

I don't think you are focusing on any positives at all and putting too much pressure on your children to have the perfect schooldays. Let them moan about things without it turning into "a terrible thing you have to fix," the fixing so far has done more harm than good. Ask what they want instead of trying to wave a magic wand and make all the bad things go away. Instead of looking for a perfect, instant solution perhaps start small - invite sort-of friends to do things with you like bowling. Go to rugby (DS) or dance of some sort (DD) and nourish these friendships. Good luck.

[underdogtown]

I know someone [whom I think has a very damaged side, which some people have seen and some haven't, she also has a very good side I assume] whom the head knows well and regards highly. She was at ds's first school. Both ds and I had v bad experiences with her. I think that has had an effect on decision.

[underdogtown]

Um, don't think I am putting them under any pressure at all? Just expressing my fears privately here. I have pretty good emotional intelligence, and am not the type to project loads of angst on my kids. I just want to support them the best way I can.

Would like to try a rugby club. If I can persuade him to join, so tired at weekends.

[underdogtown]

And a bit unfair to say I am not focusing on any positives! I give them loads of encouragement and am v proud of them both.

[PhilODox]

Ah, so his not getting the place was due to personal influence?
I'm afraid there's not much to be done there- independent schools are free to choose their pupils however they wish. Plus he's probably better off in a different school! Which you have said is lined up to be a great school anyway.
I do think one term is too soon for making new friends in an established group , so don't worry too much about that one, and keep encouraging the out of school stuff. I know it's so difficult when working.
Feel like my life is solely work/Children/sleep ATM. I'm sure it will improve once they're older and can get to places under their own steam.