MNHQ here: contribute to 'Schools that Work for Everyone' consultation

[FinnMumsnet]

Hello,

The All-Party Parliamentary Group on Education Governance and Leadership have been in touch with Mumsnet.

They'll shortly be meeting to debate the key ideas of 'Schools that Work for Everyone', a Department for Education consultation paper. (The DfE have responsibility for schools in England only.) The consultation is ongoing, so feel free to make your contribution via the online survey on this page.

The Department for Education say:

"We’re consulting on proposals to create more good school places. The proposals include:
· expecting independent schools to support existing or open new state schools, or offer funded places to children whose families can’t afford to pay fees;
· asking universities to commit to sponsoring or setting up new schools in exchange for the ability to charge higher fees;
· allowing selective schools to expand, or new ones to open, while making sure they support non-selective schools;
· allowing new faith free schools to select up to 100% of pupils based on their faith, and introducing new requirements to make sure that faith schools include pupils from different backgrounds."

The consultation window closes at 11.45pm on Monday 12 December.

Thanks,
MNHQ

I think parents would continue to pay for independent schools even if class sizes increased significantly but fees would have to come down, which would be an excellent thing. More families would be able to afford private education and more private schoools would open, making the state-private divide less stark.

I was really keen to do this survey until I looked at the questions. Instead of saying "Should we implement this policy?", they all say "How should we best implement this policy?" Since I do not agree with any of the policies, I can't really answer the questions.

State schools have nothing useful to learn from independent schools (though could use their facilities). Grammar schools are a terrible idea. University fees need cutting and fewer people need to go to university. State-funded faith schools should not exist.

Having now rtft I've answered the survey anyway, trying to be as polite as possible under the circumstances. I'm hoping they'll notice I'm a grammar-school educated parent of one child at a CofE primary and one at a comp and have taught in a faith school, a primary, several independent schools and lots of comps. So I should know what I'm talking about .

Bobo- I disagree. I think some schools could operate like that, perhaps, but most would not be able to. Parents are paying for the increased interaction and individual attention their child receives, particularly in early years.
In fact, the main thing putting us off sending DD to the SSGS she has attained a place at is the class sizes, which she just will not be used to. (30 cf. 20)
Academically, musically, sportswise, the grammar is as good as the independent.

What you feel now, Phil, is immaterial. If your market place was private school with a class size of 30 and state school with a class size of 30, fees would be lower. It's a slightly different product.

I live in France where private schools typically have much larger class sizes than state schools. Private schools are much cheaper than in England. Families still flock to private schools - the whole private sector is massively oversubscribed.

I moved my DD from a school where classes were typically 25 pupils to one where she is in a class of 34. We are delighted with the new school! Both are private schools.

The only time I felt class size made a massive difference to my DD was when she was in a highly selective class of 11 for English in her final year of primary. The DC progressed in leaps and bounds. But that was also the effect of gathering together all their learning from primary and focusing on understanding what they knew and could do. Not every year can be quite like that in any system.

As a parent (and teacher) I wouldn't choose a school based on its class sizes. Having taught big and small classes in private schools and state schools, I'd say the benefits of private schools have very little to do with class size.

Consultation done.
I might have ranted a bit, but its all done.

Eolian The government strategy has been to convince people its not worth filling in the survey. This thread is really encouraging in that people have made their voices heard anyway.

I filled it in right away but then decided not to send until more evidence emerged. Trouble is, there's now so much it's hard to know the best thing to write. I may just send it as is - the only really important thing is that I get noted down as an opponent.

God, how depressing that that is their attitude. It's been such a looooong time since there were any actually useful changes in education. Might have to post a link on FB to get others to fill in the survey.

The latest D of E tweet is touting that children at grammars do well in academic subjects. Isn't that amazing, that children hand-picked for academic ability do well in academic subjects? More stunning revelations from the D of E propaganda machine include tweets pointing out that children tend to travel further to a selective school than to a non-selective and one pointing out that when you have grammars and secondary moderns people tend to prefer grammars. They even had to withdraw one tweet when the UKSA decided it was misleading.

DfE have even wasted money on a snappy video explaining that new grammar schools have been illegal since 1988 (or 98, I wasn't really paying attention) but now they want to open them where parents want them - as if they're somehow defying 'the Man' with this act of rebellion. You're a Tory government for god's sake. This is the most establishment thing you could be doing.

FinnMN thank you!
I need to wade through the consultation document before filling out the survey but from my initia skim read this is really depressing.
I live in West Sussex where schools are generally good but hugely underfunded compared with the rest of the UK.
Grammar schools are not the answer - we moved here to avoid the grammar system it's a pernicious and divisive schooling system that benefits the haves far more than the have nots.

And notice it's grammars where people want them - no mention of those people who might prefer comprehensives having any rights at all. The belief that kids in grammars are worth more than those in secondary moderns is so deep-seated I don't think they realise it themselves, they just reveal it unconsciously. As in the constant re-iteration that the "new grammar/secondary moderns" will be different to the existing ones. They don't bother trialling that belief in the selective areas because if they're wrong it doesn't really matter -it's only the secondary modern kids who will lose out.

Slightly sideways to the Consultation but possibly of interest .....

I chatted to the Finance manager of a large secondary school today.

They are paying around £35,000 a year out of their budget on the "Apprenticeship Levy"
but as schools cannot hire apprentices
its money down the drain that would be better spent on supporting their existing pupils

my jaw hit the floor when I found out ....

Has the apprenticeship levy already kicked in then?

That was the reason why they were proposing teaching apprenticeships so you could train without needing a degree any more.

The lady I spoke to today was from a comp not a million miles from here
they have to set their budget

and there is absolutely no way that they can comply with the rules on hiring (the DBS rules are just the first hurdle)

it applies at a "group" level - so every Academy chain will be paying out shed loads

and the sort of jobs applicable might work in a school that had NCS but otherwise not ....

Apprenticeships are instead of A levels .... I'd rather physics teachers had the latter ....

This video is actually quite helpful for filling in the consultation:

twitter.com/TootingJo/status/803938920518086657

Done!

It was time-consuming but very cathartic to unload on the unfair and complex (and increasingly so) education system. I took the liberty to include some suggested improvements, as I am sure they will be carefully read and considered by the authorities...

It closes on the 12th so only three more days! Read the consultation document and share your views!

The consultation document and the wording of the questions were so biased (all "how" they can do what they want to do anyway, rather than opening for the "if") - which is intellectually dishonest and reveals to anyone who was in doubt that this is politically driven rather than trying to do what is best for children (or teachers which seem to be leaving the profession in droves thanks to paperwork and turmoil). Rigged and shameful!

The consultation document and the wording of the questions were so biased (all "how" they can do what they want to do anyway, rather than opening for the "if") - which is intellectually dishonest and reveals to anyone who was in doubt that this is politically driven rather than trying to do what is best for children Rigged and shameful!

Agree 100%.

It was very tiresome pointing this out at the start of every question.

Like a consultation into the re-introduction of capital punishment that goes "wrt the introduction of capital punishment, should we execute people by firing squad, lethal injection or shutting people in a cage with rabid rats?"
"How can we encourage the local authority to pay the costs of executing its residents? By raising money at the Box office? By seizing the property of the Condemned? By adding it to your council tax?"