Why is religion forced on all children at school?

[Kateyoz]

We are not religious and so chose a state school not a faith school for our boys but they come home every day singing hymns they are taught in assembly - the school said we can withdraw them from assemblies but why should they be made to miss out? Shouldn't state schools teach all beliefs and not focus on one, or leave religion to the parents and keep it out of school? Feel like mine are being indoctrinated into a religion against our will

[mrz]

The six foot dog was from the county council so who knows what indoctrination went on

[JassyRadlett]

Sorry, you're right, and I should have quoted specifically. The point is still relevant, and given the 'worship' element it's reasonable to ask what the purpose of a vicar visiting a school and conducting an act of worship of a broadly Christian nature, if it isn't at least in part furthering the Church's aim of evangelism.

Why did you suggest the six foot dog was indoctrinating? I certainly didn't: and why so resistant to a reasonable question about the purpose of a vicar visiting a school?

[mrz]

The dog had a message about responsibility in just the same way the visiting vicar might have a message why is one indoctrination and the other not?

[PunkrockerGirl]

The utter arrogance of Christians never cease to amaze me........

And the utterly vile Christian faith bashing on her never ceases to amaze me either, Bertrand. If people were as bigoted and rude about other religions on here, there'd be an outcry, but the MN keyboard faith bashers only have the balls to attack Christianity on here. Strange that.

Strangely enough, those of us who hold a Christian faith don't have any control over what's on the school curriculum. So if you have a problem with it, why not contact you LEA, MP, local clergy or whoever and try and change things if you feel that strongly? But you won't will you, because obviously it's easier to hide behind a keyboard and have a go at Christians online. Equally, if you don't agree with faith schools (and my dc didn't attend one) why aren't you out there campaigning to get them abolished? Again, it's easier to moan and whine on the internet.
The utter arrogance of Christians never ceases to amaze me....... Haha hahaha ....
Words fail me. When my db was dying recently, I posted on here saying how much support I was getting from people's prayer etc. The vitriol on here was astounding - I'm a palliative care nurse, ffs, I knew he wasn't going to get better, but why was the fact that prayer was comforting my family and my db's children such a source of angst for the Christian-bashers At the time, I did want to know exactly how exactly the fact that my family were finding strength and comfort from the church adversely affected anybody else, but surprisingly not nobody chose to answer that one.
It's like I've got this thing which is great for me, you don't understand it, which is fine, but frankly you resent it.

[mrz]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8743072/Most-schools-shunning-law-on-Christian-assemblies.html

[JassyRadlett]

The dog had a message about responsibility in just the same way the visiting vicar might have a message why is one indoctrination and the other not?

I'd like to find out for sure rather than speculate. And given one of the purposes of the Church is evangelism/indoctrination, it's reasonable to ask whether the visit was for that purpose or another.

I don't know what your local council' goals are or the stated purpose of the council's visit to your school. It would be unusual if the council's outreach work included evangelism about a certain faith, but of course I can't rule it out, in which case it would of course be reasonable to ask the same question.

It's a straightforward one - which of a visitor's organisation's aims does the visit promote or further?

Which is separate from the other side of the question - how does the visit further the aims of the school.

[JassyRadlett]

So if you have a problem with it, why not contact you LEA, MP, local clergy or whoever and try and change things if you feel that strongly? But you won't will you, because obviously it's easier to hide behind a keyboard and have a go at Christians online. Equally, if you don't agree with faith schools (and my dc didn't attend one) why aren't you out there campaigning to get them abolished? Again, it's easier to moan and whine on the internet.

It baffles me why so many people seem to think that talking about something on the internet means they don't do othe campaigning work on the subject.

And for the record, I've seen plenty of people criticise all faiths on Mumsnet. I think structural Christian privilege in this country probably means that the status of Christianity (and the attitude of some Christians about that structural privilege) means that there is additional attention paid to the special status Christianity occupies, and the impacts of it.

[JassyRadlett]

Also, Punk, I'm incredibly sorry for your loss, and I'm glad you found comfort and strength in prayer. It's hideous that others criticised you for that.

[PunkrockerGirl]

Keep on campaigning then Jazzy
Christian privilege, my arse.
And as for structural Chistian privilege, that's just meaningless business wankery drivel.
Try proclaiming you have a Christian faith on here and you'll see mn bigotry at its finest.

[PunkrockerGirl]

Thank you Jassy
Lots of cross posting going on here

[PunkrockerGirl]

Jassy I apologise if I came over aggressive and horrible, it was just such an awful time and some of the anti-Christians were so vile.
Again, apologies

[JassyRadlett]

And as for structural Chistian privilege, that's just meaningless business wankery drivel

Well, no. It's statute. Reserved seats in the legislature for Christian clergy, worship of a broadly Christian nature in non-faith schools, the ability of state-funded schools (the vast majority of which are Christian) to discriminate against children based on their parents' faith or lack thereof - those are all real things through which the state confers a special status and benefit to Christianity.

[BertrandRussell]

punkrockergirl, I am very sorry people were unkind to you. People's individual faith is entirely their own business.

However. You are wrong to say that Christian privilege does not exist in this country. The very fact that you have to be a nominal Christian to take a full part in the life of a state school is proof of that.

[JassyRadlett]

Cross-post if my own: No worries at all. I lost my own brother when we were children and it was awful. I can only imagine how awful your loss was, and it's dreadful that you were treated in that way.

My own position is that I'm quite happy for people to believe whatever they want to believe and worship however they wish. I think that's really the only supportable position.

I'd just like it to be separate from the state and state-funded public services, particular those with an element of universality or compulsion.

[PunkrockerGirl]

Did you actually attend that assembly, Socks?
Did the vicar really, really say that or has it been misinterpreted by your dc?

[BertrandRussell]

"Did the vicar really, really say that or has it been misinterpreted by your dc?"

I have heard religious people saying exactly that. As I said, I am scoot people were horrible to you ( I searched for the thread but couldn't find it) but I am not going to be emotionally blackmailed into accepting Christian privilege and interference into my life and that of my children.

[JassyRadlett]

Did you actually attend that assembly, Socks?
^Did the vicar really, really say that or has it been misinterpreted by your dc?'

Isn't the problem the message received, though? If that's the message received by the kids (which is not out of sync with some mainstream Christian thinking) then it's problematic.

If that wasn't the message intended then it's still not ok - it's the impact on the kids that matters.

[PunkrockerGirl]

So no, Socks you didn't actually hear the vicar spout such a pearl of wisdom and its unlikely that he/she did, you've just chosen to believe it.
Nobody's blackmailing you, Bertrand, believe what you want to believe, as do I. And here's a surprise, after db died, I found the whole anti prayer/anti Christian thread quite distressing to read, so asked for it to go (as I'd started it). There were so many lovely posts on there which I'd like to have kept, but the vile, vitriolic ones made that impossible.
Do you really have time to go trawling through people's past history just to point score?
I prefer to get on with my life, with my faith, which is getting me through my grief. I'm not hurting anyone else in doing so although on mn you'd think that by having a faith I'm personally responsible for all that's wrong with the world

[BertrandRussell]

"prefer to get on with my life, with my faith, which is getting me through my grief. I'm not hurting anyone else in doing so"

[BertrandRussell]

"prefer to get on with my life, with my faith, which is getting me through my grief. I'm not hurting anyone else in doing so"
No, you're not. But the imposition of Christianity on society does hurt other people. Your own personal beliefs are yours. That is very different from society regarding Christianity as the norm. Which it does.

[BertrandRussell]

And if that was the message 2stripedsocks's
Kids got front the Christian assembly, then that is the fault of the assembly not the child.