Without doing a search - do you know what the Iambic Pentameter is?

[Itcouldhavebeenbeetroot]

And if so when were you taught it?

Yup - learnt at school - aged 14/15 or so but couldn't for the life of me remember much about it past Shakespeare - nice example earlier though!!!

'Itcouldhavebeenbeetroot... I really don't think that spending ages angsting about different forms is especially helpful.

In iambic pentameter the metre is pretty clear - does it really aid understanding to know what it is called?'

Not sure what you mean by this.

It matters to kids who are being put of Shakespeare because it is boring to know that reading it can be made pretty simple by learning a couple of rules. and it can become fun trying to work out where it is.

Having just worked with 200 kids who neither knew the name or how it worked, I would say that it is very important and knowledge gives you power- and they had spent 3 - 6 months rehearsing

Yes. when doing English literture at school. Probably Shakespeare

WW and they really are not hard - especially the simple Iambic Pentameter. The others get more tricky - but they can be learnt later.

Games and such like can bring it to life!

I don't think that I was arguing that it wasn't helpful to know the metre.

I'm just not convinced that it is important for kids to know that it is called iambic pentameter - or for people to feel inadequate and/or undereducated because they don't know the proper word for dum DUM dum DUM Dum DUM dum DUM...

Iambus comes with steady pace,
Swift the trochee takes its place,
Follows the dactyl on pattering feet,
The amphybrach next with its stressed middle beat,
And last in the line but not least is the rare anapiste.

(Can't remember how to spell anapiste.)

I was taught that at school, for O Level English Lit, I guess.

oh am I making people feel uneducated? Blimey - that came from left field.

As I said, I was taught it but loads of kids seem NOT to be taught it now and to me that is dumbing down.

Of course I could have said

'Without doing a search - do you know what the dedum dedum dedum dedum dedum....'

That would have been more inclusive????

Sari - fabulous - I shall learn that

to do with poetry? number of lines in a verse or something? 5 obviously come into it. To do with rhythm/syllables as well?

How have I done? Have I embarrassed myself?

Oh well. I was vaguely along the right lines.

There is a paperback called 'How to be well-versed in poetry' by E.O.Parrott that is filled with ditties and poems about feet, metres etc. I learnt more from that than I ever did at grammar school.

de DAH de DAH de DAH de DAH

de DAH de DAH de DAH forSOOTH

Apologies for my crabbiness all - am trying to work on a v trechnical (but not literary) report, and had row with dp. Suspect that this may have coloured my response somewhat...

I was always more concerned with feelings and philosophy than form, which doesn't help. But since I knew what IP was - I suppose I hadn't thought about how it might work for those who had never had metre explained to them at all.

Sounds like you are doing a great job Itcouldhavebeenbeetroot. Lucky kids to have your enthusiasm to guide them through.

I want to tell you all that I do know
to do this rhythm first you have to show
how to count to five (the tricky bit)
And tap your fingers (try to manage it)
tee tum tee tum tee tum is how it goes
Much more poetic than your boring prose
Just like a heartbeat touches us so deep
You might even get your baby off to sleep!

Also - IMO one of the most stunnig lines in Shakespeare is from 'Macbeth' -

'Never, never, never, never, never'

When Macbeth is despairing of life and talking about how pointless it all is (from my rusty memory).

THis is the anti-iambic-pentameter as it reverses the rythym and sounds deeply disturbing when heard against the harmonious rhythm (ifswim).

Genius!

Apparently, spoken English naturally tends to fall into 10 syllable phrases. Dunno where I gleaned that nugget though.

Was taught iambic pentameter whilst studying Twelfth Night for O level.

I was taught IP on my access, so two years ago. There was a day at bristol Uni covering it too which I didnt get to go to (it was for the Language guys, I passed that ats chool) and they were all dancing to IP with the students. Fun but bizarre, apaprently.

Not taught at school however. As my Prof says, people all complain about the education these days, but its the likes of me (ie those raised in the seventies) they have to teach comma's / Ip etc to, because it was cool to not teach it abck then.

Yep, and was taught it in English at school.

Was taught iambic pentameters but not basic grammar

Yes - at school - when studying "O" level English lit.

yes

Emmylou - fabulous

Shakespeare is wonderful at changing the rhythm to make a point...

LOL Smiley - who taught you English?

me too Smiley!