If you're anti grammar schools, then please answer me this:

[Proseccocino]

If your child had a gift for music, then you might send her to a school which excels musically.

If your child had a talent for sport, you might send him to an academy which excels at sport, one where he can really focus and develop in the area in which he is better than his peers.

And so on....!

So, if your child is intelligent, academically gifted... Why is it bad to say you would send her to a selective school where she can study along with other bright students?

If it's OK to separate children according to ability in sport or music or drama or technology, and send them to specialist schools which excel in these areas - why is it a different story if their talent with their academic ability?

mathsmum314 Wed 14-Sep-16 09:28:02 Because so far A is the highest grade you can get, that is the glass ceiling bright kids face. Lets hope the new progress 8 and 9-1 system encourages schools to stretch bright children.*

I think one point you may have missed is that despite 2StripedSocks DC being in a SS (so top 5%-10% not top 25%), the school still feels the need for the DCs to undertake substancial amounts of home learning, to the extent that they don't even have 1 hour a week of free time (which is the length of time most tutions sessions are offered for by me). How much more "stretching" do you think those kids can take?

You do know that "even" in grammar schools all A*s is unusual? I think there were 2 at our nearest one this year..........

Why does anyone want you higher than an A*?

I never quite get this. It can only be competition and one upmanship.

What are we sending our children to school for?

If it's to get into a great university that needs straight As, let them get straight As.

As they are capable of more, how about channelling that into sport or music or volunteering or anything that gives them a more rounded education - not more academic subjects and more homework.

If they really are that able - they can flourish at university, post grad or whatever. Those are the specialist places to stretch them.

"There are some university departments who are already asking AAA, AA*A."

Really? Apart from Oxford- who?

Oh, you mean at A level- sorry.

One of the things I liked about my dd's grammar school was that the had a policy of minimal homework- the line was that they worked so hard in school hours that they were expected to do other stuff out of school.

But there are parents who equate "lots of homework" with "good school"......

I

Karma- as I said, I misread your post- I didn't spot the comma and thought you were talking about GCSEs.

Obviously comprehensive have got so good that universities are expecting more.

There have been massive amounts of grade inflation of the last 20+ years.

AAA now is not remotely comparable to what it was in the late 80s.

Roughly speaking, all (higher rank) university offers have gone up by one grade per subject, while the incoming students have remained at roughly the same level or dropped in level. E.g. a late 80s BBB offer is typically now AAA but the difficulty and level of the university course is likely to be lower...

zzzzz Wed 14-Sep-16 11:24:30 The grammar school students here don't get bucket loads of homework.

That's what I thought. However, I have now been corrected by 2StripedSocks:

2StripedSocks Wed 14-Sep-16 08:08:15 There is no time for tutoring on top of the mountains of homework they do.

"I think a lot would be solved by measuring progression in schools rather than number of GCSEs At the moment it is in every school's interest to get as many A-C passes from as many pupils as possible.

^They've already done this. The school measure from this year will be Progress 8.

But of course instead of having time to embed any new measures (or even see what the scores are for schools as these won't be out till Jan) the government decides that a complete overhaul of the school system is needed. FFS we haven't even sat the new GCSEs or A-levels yet^. "

I agree. I do think therr is room for many comps to do more to extend the most academic students, but that most of the reasons why they don't are down to government, not the individual schools.

I have seen no-one refer to the new Grade 9 exam levels; These, as you say, haven't even been sat yet. But comps WILL be rising to the challenge of getting students to a Grade 9. They will need to focus on their top ability pupils to do this.

IMO the recent emphasis on getting students to RG UNis has pushed comps, too - though is sixth form, which many schools have made selective anyway. The GCSE Grade 9s will show what comps can (or cannot) do in supporting top band students.

Let's see what can be done with what we have before meddling about and investing vast sums of money to re-introduce an old unfair system that will take more expense and fiddling about to try and make it less unfair.

DD 1 is expected to do 15-18 hours private study a week in YR 13 ! . That sounds reasonable over 4 A2 subjects

DD YR 9 (same school) is expected to do '20' hours over a 2 week period one week is 11hrs the next is 9 hrs .

DS YR11 is doing spending more time on homework than DD1 , which is because 11 subjects * 1.5 hrs PW ! It is a bit unfair that a 15 and a half YR old has to spend my time than his '18 yr old (next week) sister.

Can't recommend this enough:
www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/09/sam-freeman-selective-schools-destroy-choice-and-competition-why-conservatives-should-oppose-mays-plans.

And this killer statistic:

The poorest children in Tower Hamlets and Westminster now do better than the average for all pupils in selective counties like Kent and Lincolnshire

large numbers are using tutors to get their DCs into the schools in the first place

No, they aren't. I will keep banging my head against this particular brick wall.

Large numbers are using tutors to familiarise their children with an exam which otherwise they would have no notion of how to approach. You wouldn't send your child to a swimming gala without ensuring that he/she had been taught to swim, would you? And I don't suppose anyone would bat an eyelid that you sent your child to swimming lessons, despite being able to swim yourself.

You cannot tutor a child to pass the 11+, unless they are already there or thereabouts. Tutoring just means that the child will be familiar with the types of question they are likely to face, and this will give them more confidence.

It is a complete fallacy that hordes of Grammar school children continue to receive tutoring. The only people that would be in a financial position to afford this, would be parents who could have their children privately educated anyway. They wouldn't go for the cheap option Grammar, only to have their money frittered away on tutoring (is this supposedly in every subject, btw? Would cost a small fortune).

LetitiaCropleysCookbook Wed 14-Sep-16 12:54:44 No, they aren't. I will keep banging my head against this particular brick wall.

You can't blame me for believing what I hear. Perhaps you have your own research documents/reports that I can look at:

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/exclusive-grammar-school-chief-dismisses-ministers-vision-tutor-proof

www.theguardian.com/education/2014/sep/16/state-school-pupils-worse-tutor-proof-11-plus-tests

www.theguardian.com/education/2016/sep/12/tutor-11plus-test-grammar-schools-disadvantaged-pupils

schoolsweek.co.uk/campaigners-question-1m-tutor-proof-11-plus-tests/

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/tutor-proof-grammar-school-tests-exist/

The proportion of tutored pupils has risen by more than a third over the past decade, from 18% in 2005 to 25% now. In London, 44% of pupils had private or home tuition last year, compared with 34% in 2005.

www.theguardian.com/education/2015/oct/04/private-tutors-arms-race-schools-parents

Loads of parents get tutors for their kids, especially in my subject (maths). Ridiculous to suggest that if they could afford tutoring they could afford private school.

LetitiaCropleysCookbook Wed 14-Sep-16 12:54:44 The only people that would be in a financial position to afford this, would be parents who could have their children privately educated anyway

I think far more parents can afford £25 a week (at least that is what most tutors charge in my area) than can afford the fees for a private prep. but I will take your word for it.