Do private schools have better teachers?

[hercules1]

Read this on a different thread and it has peed me off a bit. I know lots of really good teachers who don't and won't teach in private schools. I've also known some teachers leave the state system to go to the private as they could no longer cope within the state.

Private doesn't equate with better teachers Of course it means lots of other things and I am sure there are lots of excellent teachers in the private system but no more so than the state.

My friend in the private school works longer hours now than he did. There is an expectation to be involved in more activites/trips etc (he doesn't teach on Saturdays but does sometimes have things on on a Sat). However what he does say is that he doesn't mind this and is happier as he enjoys the work he is having to do. When he was teaching in the state school he really didn't like the fact that he spent a lot of time preparing lessons that he didn't feel were appreciated and dealing with behaviour issues (detentions, writing behaviour reports, phoning parents, chasing homework and coursework...)
Now he feels that the work he does is appreciated more and he feels that a higher % of his pupils want to work hard and succeed in his subject.

He is better at teaching high ability children and so is better suited in a private school (I know they are not all geniuses but there are a lot less low ability kids).
I am better at teaching lower ability kids and get more out of helping them succeed, even if that success is 'only' a grade D or E.

I think it comes down to the attitude and personality of the teacher. Also the ethos of the school plays a big part in what that school is like.

And as far as the pupils go. Some are more suited to private school teaching and ethos ans some are more suited to a 'normal' school.

That's a point about private schools which makes their performance hard to judge.
A high % are selective to at least some extent, so aren't dealing with "average" kids.

That has bit of a virtuous circle. Fewer difficult kids, and more kids motivated to learn so the teachers have more pleasant and rewarding work. That probably makes a given teacher better than they would other wise be, and also I'd assume that a more pleasant working environment helps schools attract more applicants and thus choose the better ones.

yes, good private schools are very selective, they had entry exams in my day. we still got stressed out teachers though, one maths teacher was a lunatic, hurled a chair at one of my classmates (thankfully missed the poor boy) and was promptly sacked !

I have a friend teaching geography at a secondary school, selective only for girls, East Midlands.

I think she's probably a fab and dedicated teacher, but I was shocked that basically she only needed a 3-yr degree in relevant subject, and no training at all in education (no PGCE or whatever). I thought that was common the private sector, they go with your references or gut feelings about you, they barely care about qualifications.

( Maybe so that the staff know their place when confronting the parents? My guess!, not her comment. )

She also says some of the students are snippy little snobby disruptive madams with shallow over-bearing parents. Must be the beard-wearing leftie coming out in her!

No.

Just got to join in here- for slug - I expect you mean Gordonstoun? I used to work in one of the Round Square schools too, in Surrey.

In my experience, the range of teachers is the same but in private schools there is more control over staff,as they can be shown the door for being incompetent- whereas in state schools there have to be certain sackable ofences, rather than just poor teaching.

It also means that parents can basically demand their monies' worth- and some of them are quick to make that point at Parent's Nights- so you feel you are being directly employed!

As for it being easier- well, the Times published a letter from me on that very topic some time last year or so- my point being that when I moved to the state sector, it was for a rest! No more Saturday lessons, supervising prep til 9pm, weekend boarding duites and a full set of extra curricula activites to teach after a day at the chalk face!

The answer to the question is really that there is no answer- staff turnover means that you never know who will be teaching at any school, you can only go by league tables, results and your own observations when you look round.

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I would agree with glyn and the schools don't have to be too PC or pussy footing over saying your teaching is bad, you're out. Also we haven't in the 15 or whatever years our have been in the private sector yet had a single supply teacher ever, always teachers who have been and usually stay at teh school for a long time - luckily for some reason they never had a class treacher who got pregnant even.

Also my husband preferred private schools as a teacher (no Saturday school in his) for lots of reasons which can attract teachers perhaps more than in the state sector, staff accommodation, virtually free school fees for your own children, may be at some point also he definitely did get higher pay - they tried to pay a bit above the state rates etc etc so if it's attractive to work there more demand to work there so more applicants per post and better applicants.

My friend (sort of) is an alcoholic. She is also a teacher at an expensive but frankly abysmal private school. The stories (possibly exaggerated I know) that she tells of the corruption and total incompetence of certain members of staff would make your blood run cold. Frankly I wouldn't employ my 'friend' as a teacher and I would move my child if they were in a school like hers.

I don't think a state school would be able to protect the crap members of staff and crap teaching practices that are still going strong at her private school.

I went to a private school (boys public). Good old boys network, close community etc. I did biology A level with a teacher who didn't teach us half the syllabus because he had other things on (not school related).

Nobody realised this until a few weeks before the exam because the teachers had absolutely no accountabilty to anyone. Eventually the students complained and asked for extra lessons to cover the syllabus we'd missed.

We were given extra lessons in secret to cover what we'd missed so we wouldn't hurt our own teacher's feelings .

Somehow I don't think the situation would have got that far in a state school.

Well these anecdotal examples are all well and good but there are more examples of state schools teaching the wrong syllabus than in the private sector and if private teachers are so poor why do the children do so much better than at state schools? Is it just that the children are so clever or is it that richer parents have better children or something? I think the teaching is on the whole better in private schools.

so...what do people actually pay for, then...the privilige to send thei kids to that school...or the extra curriculum activities....
but I agree, tehre are good and not so good tachers at every school...but yeah, if you pay for it privately I suppose you would expect your children to get the best of everything, and, I suppose, rightly so...not that I could afford to go that way!

Oh fgs - I was a teacher. If I wanted I could work in a state school (have done that). If I wanted I could also get a job in a private school (have done that too).
I am not a better teacher if I work in one school or the other. In a private school I may have more resources, smaller classes and more children from families that are educated and value education more highly.

But this does not make me a better teacher.

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xneia
it sEASY to teahc clever kdis or generlaly wel moticate dkids
not all private shcools have clever kdis
you have to remmebr YOUr epxerenicne is limited
just cos YOu went to school and sent your kdis there does not make you an expert!
the same way just because i go on an internet site does not make me an expert in IT and int ellectual porpery

so go figure
you dont knwo ti all!

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shimmy, exactly, I mean es teacher now, is brill...and we are now in the poorest area we have ever been...lol!
Must admit,people here seem to think it's just fine to send their Kids to the worst school here, cos, enxt year or so they gonna get a new building and a new name...my issue, the staff is gonna be the same..which is not a problem, because I am pretty sure they are not the ones at fault for teh school failings...is the type of "clientel" they have...they basically are the school , that everyone gets that didn't get into any other school...so, more down to student and parent attitude....so, imo...a new building a new name is not gonna change anything!

O, I've limited experience but our children have been in 4 or 5 schools and I was in yet another one and my ex husband taught in quite a few and my oldest child is 22 so I may know a bit more than some parents, that's all, because of that. I know what my ex husband told me about applications for jobs in state and private sector. if one person applies and for another ob 10 apply the school which is choosing between 10 and they all have a degree in their subject and experience and good references is likely to get the better candidate.

oh god yes, private schools are full of the good, the bad and the ugly !

i had a great time in my schools, i was motivated and very academic. i think i would have done well in a crap school. i have said this before and i mean it, bright kids do well anywhere.

the thing about private schools is you get lots more individual attention, so if you are "nice but dim", and daddy works hard to pay your fees and keeps TELLING you that he is working his arse off for you to pay your fees, you pull your socks up. luckily my dad was very laid back, trusted me and just paid the fees.

my ex-boyfriend was told he wasn't allowed to look at or speak to a girl until he was 18 and had got straight A's at A-Level because his father kept telling him HOW MUCH the fees were ! it resulted in one f* adult man who has serious emotional issues. he got into Oxford though !!!

no, just lucky ones

I trained as a secondary teacher (but was rubbish).

The two state schools I worked in had serious problems, the teachers seemed to be either on sick leave or waiting for retirement and there was a lack of even basic equipment. Expecting children to learn under a leaking roof on a diet of turkey twizzlers is asking a lot.

I have heard that there are really good state schools.

..mothers pay school fees too...

Ah yes, I know they do, wasn't trying to be sexist, but do you keep TELLING them how much the fees are Xenia ?

No. I don't remember my parents doing so either. It's a bit naff to talk about money like that to children, bit working class really, isn't it? The money is nothing to do with the children. You pick an education for them and give it to them willingly. In fact if it is a crippling sum to be paying then perhaps it's not really worth having them at a private school, too much pressure on the child.

Ah Xenia, apart from your "working class" comment I agree I think talking about fees screws children up, as given in my earlier example.