Good education and exam results : does it always equal a happy child?

[JustSometimes]

Just been reading some of the threads on today's chat about private secondary / primary etc. We send DDs to private school as we wanted them to have the best education.
DD1 developed eating disorders and became very stressed although had excellent academic results. DD2 had good/average results but didn't mix with the 'in groups' which made her miserable and lonely. They are both at Uni now, having a great time.
DH and I have debated many times was it the school? School friend influences? Pressure to achieve? Answers that we'll probably not know for many years until DDs are able to make sense of themselves.
Is it the case of the best education for every child or a happy, well balanced education wherever that may be?

I don't want my girls to grow up ofcourse i do. It is so scary what the future holds. I just want my kids to be able to talk to me about anything.

xenia what do you mean by most important years 0-7 ?

I don't want my girls to grow up ofcourse i do. It is so scary what the future holds. I just want my kids to be able to talk to me about anything.

xenia what do you mean by most important years 0-7 ?

bump

I think a lot depends on things like the friends you make, the way you approach life and the way your family works too. I always thought of my ds as being more vulnerable than my dd (probably just a mum thing) but as they have got older I am aware that he is in fact incredibly self confident about himself and she is not. The other day she was in tears because she didn't think she was pretty enough which worried me a lot, because at 6 I just don't think that should be on her agenda (ds on the other hand still objects when I tell him to put his clothes on the right way out - no one will notice he says!). So I think that maybe girls are just very vulnerable to that sort of issue - I do remember most of the girls in my class at school (private academic girls school, but not high pressure) self harming in one way or another.

This is an interesting thread. I went to a state comprehensive all girls school populated by those from predominantly working class backgrounds and don't recall anybody with eating disorders.

I recently went to a reunion with a lot of them and we reminsced about our school days. They are all happy and content with how there life has turned out. We all remembered our school days with fondness and what we remembered was the non-academic things - the friendships, the pranks, the tricks we played on teachers, the quirkiness of certain pupils and teachers etc.

Only 3 of us went to university but the non-university people have led fulfilling lives and are happy. Academic achievement is not a prerequisite to a happy or fulfilling life.

LaD, that's really classically how it usually is. My brother is in effect devoting his life to helping anorexics as a psychiatrist not that that means I personally am an expert. There may well be more girls at high achieving academic schools with anorexia but I think not because of pressure at the school which can be water off a duck's back to a different child. The ones I have known are pressured within themselves. I am happy to be good enough. Many have to be perfect. It's a very interesting personality type difference.

One of my best friends at school was hospitalised. I remember seeing her body at swimming when she was about 13 or 14. It looked like something out of Belsen. There's a girl (grown up) at my Bikram yoga who has anorexia. It's so so sad to see. I don't think you can say these schools cause the problem. Of course many parents with chidlren who aren't clever enough for the schools go on and on about how aewful these schools are, acamdemic pressure hot houses only interested in good results but that is frankly complete rubbish and often jealousy on the part of the parent whose little Jenny who they think is brilliant (but isn't) didn't get in so of course you console yourself by saying you've spared her a life of anorexia and pressure. In my school which was not all pressured - very few of us went to university (despite it being a private school) certainly didn't make my friend who was one of twins anorexic. Her non identical twin didn't get it.

snow, I meant that we form our children up to the age of about 7 fundamentally and psychologically although I still think 50% of what they are is genetic too. If they feel loved, praised, accepted and content that will give them a robustness to survive most of what life will throw at them. Was it Acquinus or the Jesuits who said give me the child to the age of 7 and I will show you the man?

Personally I think we were also helped that my girls were at all girls schools, spent most of their mid teens on horseback and in the open air rather than in seedy clubs or with boys so they just didn't have that boy and image pressure you get in some mixed schools. We kind of somehow preserved their youth/childhood and NLCS/Habs I felt were an important part of that, schools with grounds, lots of sports, no boy pressure in class. Anyway it worked for us and so far so good but that's why you need psychological analysis of people over their 80+ year lifespan to see what effect of something in childhood had an impact on what they did at 20/30 or 60 etc.

speedy, I don't know the statistics by type of school. A lot of schools have much bigger a problem with obesity sadly and diabetes than anorexia although obesity does not immediately kill and liking cream buns is not a psychiatric disorder.

I remember my brother sending me a paper he'd published and it had some interesting examples from 1500s and earlier, writings of women who weren't eating, fading away etc. It's been a control/mental problem for hundreds of years.

It would be interesting to see if there is any data that can correlate the occurrance of anorexia/obesity with

1. school type (ie hot house academic vs as long as you do your best)

1. state vs private sector

1. social background

You might find if there is a genetic link as there is with depression and I suspect many eating disorders if also anorexia goes with hard work and perfectionism then people with that may ultimately do better financially in life and be able to afford school fees so would be hard still to work out the reasons.

I think there is more a herd culture in boarding schools in particular (and in fact those tend not to get the best academic results of the private schools anyway). So you would expect a load of girls packed off into the country together with nothing much to do and parents who have in effect rejected them by sending them to board might well collectively follow a trend to eat and then vomit or to try to be ultra slim whereas children going home to their parents each might get the influence of peers diluted.

Are children in state schools fatter than those in private schools. Probably every study ever done shows the lower your social class and income the omre likely to fill yourself with coke and burgers on a regular basis. Slimmest healthiest borough in the UK is Kensington and Chelsea.

Speedymama - your story about the boy who did chemistry reminds me of a tragic story about a boy who went to study medicine. My best friend's daughter went to private school with him and his parents had really great amibition for him to be a doctor - they talked openly in front of their son how he was going to follow in his father's footsteps. His dad was a surgeon and he wanted his son to do really well. When he went to university he let go a bit and didn't do any work for the first year - quite a common problem for first year students! He failed some of his exams and so you know what he did!!! He hung himself.

His parents were totally devastated of course, and blamed themselves totally for it. I don't think it was their fault, I think they wanted him to do well, just like everyone wants their child to do well. I am sure that in the end they wouldn;t have cared if he worked in the baker's shop, so long as they had their son. For that boy, academic success was clearly of great importance, but the story made me think carefully with my kids, not to put too much emphasis on success at school.

What a sad story. When mine have agonised over GCSEs or A levels I've often talked about rates of suicide in teenage boys and how exams are really not that important. By the time you get to my age, 45, and you look at who is happy and also separately who has done well, it does by no means equate to exam results. One of the best QCs I know flunked A levels and went to some ex polytechnic so obscure I can't even remember its names because he wasn't very interested in school work as a teenage boy but if you have drive, ambition, ability, people skills and luck and all those other things you can forge a path in whatever you choose to a much greater extent than many teenagers sitting public exams believe to be the case. That notwithstanding it's certainly helpful if you do well in exams. I have three children at university and picking careers now or trying to so it's quite relevant.

I actually agree with Xenia's last post

I think success (however you define it) is 75% about having the confidence/cheek/vision to believe that the phase you are in (whether it's A-Levels, being a SAHM for 5 years, driving buses, working in a bank) doesn't define you and doesn't have to be permanent. People change careers in their 50s. It's still difficult, especially for women and even more so for mothers, but with a bit of self-belief, chutzpah and stamina, it's MUCH more possible than it used to be to achieve your goals at any stage of life.

That's what I tell myself, anyway

That is a tragic story Figroll. I often wonder what happen to my colleague. When he left, he cut all contact - very sad.

Agree with Xenia and Greensleeves. Teeachers at my school did not believe that black girls could achieve academically(this was late 70s early 80s) and if you did not have self-belief, tenacity and a capacity for hard work as well as supportive parents, you gave up. Unfortunately, in my year, most did and could not wait to leave despite being academically able. Despite the negativity, I worked hard, passed my exams and ended up with degree and PhD in chemistry plus a career that my parents thought was only for white middle class men(lol).

what a sad event figroll. that is your worst nightmare.
xenia well done you 3 kids at uni with admiration. You must have started young i'm coming 40 this year and mine are 3 and 5

Very interesting all these analysis with pressure/do your best etc.....

I think it is very much to do with influences. I remember working on saturdays and after school during my o'level year and my friend who was gorgeous and clever giving up work on advice of teacher parents so she could study more for her exams. I wanted the money £1.80 an hour I know!?!

my eldest sister the nun's came to our home to plead with my parent's to send her to grammar school.

beginning to ramble here. Ultimately there is no handbook for bringing up children or is mumsnet the nearest thing

The school can help a bit. My daughters' academic private schools obviously expect 100% of girls to go to good universities and they virtually all do whatever their colour or class (although obviously only those with help with fees or parents who can afford the fees) are there at all. The schools also give guidance to parents about things like should the girl have a job out of school (the prefer the girls not to be working too much during A level year - all day Saturday is a bit much if you're revising and need to relax but it's up to the girl and her parents.

Yes, I married at 21 and nearly 23 when I had the first one but the twins are only 8 so will be doing university entrance for them yet again when I'm 55.

I think both my daughters could have had a stab at trying for Oxbridge but they didn't think they'd get in and didn't want to bother doing the extra class you do at their schools to help you and I thought at 16 or 17 that should be their decision so I suppose that's an example of my not pushing them. On the other hand they obviously imbibe the ethos of the school, family, home and their friends because one is doing law and the other looking at things like banking.

Part of the problem is not knowing what careers exist at all and teenagers make decisoins based on what one teacher said or they saw on TV. It's hard to give them a wide picture even if you buy them careers books and they have a good careers service at school. Funeral director, perfume mixer, sports manager - just so many jobs than most of them imagine are out there.

I had an awful schooling especially in primary school. Our crazy tacher would hit us and insult us as a matter of course. Secondary school (an Irish convent) was a bit better but by then the confidence was beaten out of me. When I hear Irish people talk at length about the brilliant education system in Ireland I want to scream.

It has had a last effect on me. It is mainly my confidence. I am constantly waiting for my employers to realise that I am crap. My sister became anorexic and my other sister obese both were high achieving.

dros, that's terrible. I was a primary level taught by lovely nuns in a private school. It was the free 1960s after Vatican II. They played guitars and talked about peace and love and used caring Montessori methods. This was England though not Ireland.

I don't think they heard of Vatican II in Irish convents and as for the Christian Brother school I don't think they heard of Christ!!!

Funnily enough I have been having some hypnotherapy for anxiety and phobias and what do you think I kept coming back to under hypnosis - school.

I was sent to a particular school because my mum thought it was the best in the area. I was really miserable there but didn't say anything, just kept going.I knew how important it was to her that I did well.Got OK marks,but always felt under huge pressure to do better. Went to Uni a long way away to escape my memories. I had the best time there and learned to enjoy learning.
I desperately want dd to be happy at school. Both academically and socially. I will support her as much as I can but do my damnedest not to put pressure on her.
When we went to see primary schools in our area, we didn't look at results/ofsteds etc until we had got a feel for the schools, and had a good idea where dd would fit best. We are hoping she will have a place where all the children looked happy and keen to learn...

Drosophila - are you finding the hypnosis helpful. I often think I could do with talking to someone ...

I have only had one session and it deffo felt odd. I was very calm afterwards so hopefully it's having an effect. I have become very anxious over silly things like driving and flying so I wanted to address it.