Good education and exam results : does it always equal a happy child?

[JustSometimes]

Just been reading some of the threads on today's chat about private secondary / primary etc. We send DDs to private school as we wanted them to have the best education.
DD1 developed eating disorders and became very stressed although had excellent academic results. DD2 had good/average results but didn't mix with the 'in groups' which made her miserable and lonely. They are both at Uni now, having a great time.
DH and I have debated many times was it the school? School friend influences? Pressure to achieve? Answers that we'll probably not know for many years until DDs are able to make sense of themselves.
Is it the case of the best education for every child or a happy, well balanced education wherever that may be?

IMO the "best" education IS a happy well balanced one..isn't it? A miserable child is unlikely to 'perform' to best of their ability regardless of how much their education is costing...

Sorry, perhaps should clarify. Best academic?

I read chemistry at university. There was a guy in my year who went to private school and whose father was a physics master at a private school. This guy did well in his A'levels (As and Bs) and we all thought he would get a first. In the end he got a 2.2. At the graduation, his father marched him up to a professor and demanded that he do a PhD to redeem himself. The professor had some money so was able to offer him a full studentship (he took pity on him). The guy hardly ever turned up and by the second year dropped out.

The poor guy was was under so much pressure from his parents to live up to his potential and their expectations that in the end, he buckled under the pressure.

Me on the other hand, non-selective state comp, no family pressure other than do your best and I did because I wanted to and did not feel obliged that I had to pay back my parents for their sacrifices.

Happiness depends on so many things it's hard to tease the reasons apart. But I don't think good results necessarily lead to happiness if the child is only achieving in order to get the parents approval.

No, you can't expect any one to automatically be happy because they've had a good education! There's so many other things that could make them happy/unhappy. It's nice if you can give them the best opportunities though.

bump

It's interesting how many of us on MN automatically equate 'good' with 'academic'. Surely a good school is one that identifies one's child's strengths and weaknesses, and addresses them as necessary. However, I'm not completely naive and I do realise that a major reason that a school might be considered 'good' is because the kids are well disciplined, are from caring and committed homes and thus- deep breath- are surely more likely to be middle class. And (we) Middle Class Parents are the ones most likely to be sucked into believing that 'good' should mean 'academic'! As an aside, I think it's interesting how the beloved league tables have finally gotten around to publishing that VERY useful measure of a school's effectiveness, the 'value adding' and, lol, how many top-of-the-table schools objected as it was a table they couldn't come top of seeing as they only admitted 'A' grade kids to start with!

I don't automatically equate 'good' with academic.

My 2 are both averagely bright but I want school to be so much more than 'cramming'.

They need to learn to love knowledge for its own sake so they will always be learning, enjoy a wet, muddy walk and the smell of leaf mould in the winter, blubells in the spring, play games to understand about team's pulling together, and a wide range of opportunities so they know what they are best at and what they enjoy most. A most of all they need a happy, disciplined environment that suits their temperament.

This could well be different for each child!

And I would never expect my child to 'achieve to make up for my sacrifices' in paying for schooling. As long as they do their best, have a fulfilling life and are HAPPY that is all I ask

I think mental disorders like most eating disorders are caused within the child not the school and not the parents' fault usually either.

One issue on this thread is whether happines should be our aim in life at all actually. Is that not rather a selfish aim for us and our children?

I think to some degree some people are likely to experience "unhappiness" in various forms whatever they do and it probably does depend on who they're doing things with rather than what they're doing I think.

I have friends who went to private school but we met at the same uni, friends who I went to school with who got straight As all the way through, went to Cambridge & then ended up in the same profession as me - however we're all happy in our own ways.

Likewise there are teenage mums who seem to give up & just moan about their situation forever & ever and those who don't.

I really do think it is mainly down to the person. It's possible for everyone to be happy - & it is possible to be happy without your life being perfect. I also don't think that there is a definitive best case - what's best for each person will vary so much.

I certainly think if happiness is an aim then encouraging people to do thinks which classically do make you happier like lots of exercise (privat schools tend to win out on that one), very good healthy food ( again perhaps school lunches in the private sector are better but you can give them good food at home), enough sleep and doing some things you enjoy help. I did feel with our children I was buying not so much the good exam results which they could get anywhere if they're bright enough but the overall education, the broadness of mind, the debates, the exposure to a huge number of possible hobbies etc which they may not have got in the local state schools.

Also if the parents go on and on about paying fees and how the children have to make that worthwhile that must make things harder for children too. I suspect a lot of children have undiagnosed depression too. I think the bigger better private schools probably have better help on hand for many conditions than some state schools.

We found the opposite with our DD. At primary school she was stroppy, argumentative and awkward, throwing tantrums and being a pain in the neck. She had a nice group of friends so it didn't occur to me it was the school. Went to secondary school (private) and changed overnight. With hindsight it was obvious she was desperately unhappy at primary yet had never said anything. She blossomed at secondary, had loads of friends and did really well academically.

We hauled DS1 and DS3 out of that primary and sent them elsewhere too- one to a private primary and one to a different state primary. Both did much better having been moved. (Yet DS2 was happy there and we didn't move him).

The best education as I see it is finding a school that suits the individual child whether it's state or private, academic or arty, sporty or whatever. Trouble is identifying the problem at the time.

Being able read, write and do basic arthetic makes someone employable. In the 21st century an adult who cant read is effectively disabled. They can't even do something like post on mumsnet!

How much of a difference does exam results make to life? I think it is important for a child to know they are loved however they do in exams. I went to a private school that took exam results far too seriously.

I think happiness is a reasonable aim and something I definitely want for my children, Xenia. Do you honestly not want that for your babies, as long as it doesn't entail them evilly trampling on other people's wellbeing along the way?

I guess school and other aspects of their life ideally need to be challenging enough to hold their interest without being a constant pressure. And they need to do lots of things they enjoy. I think we all do our best, JustSometimes, and you've clearly helped your daughters through some bad times to the place where they are currently having a great time. Sounds like you have dome a good job to me.

Have got to get to bed, so not much time to read all the posts.
But my mum often says "I wonder if you'd have done better [academically] if you'd gone to St XXXX school (the only private schol in town). I sometimes regret we never sent you there"
I went to the local very mixed comp, had nice friends, was dead sensible most of the time, got 9 Olevels and 3 A levels. Yes I may have got better results , but do you know for the most part I had an absolute ball at secondary school. I rarely didn't want to go in, was just very happy and didn't give my parents any bother.
For me, "balanced" was the key word and helped me become who I am. I don't think I would've survived in a highly presurred environment.

"I think mental disorders like most eating disorders are caused within the child not the school and not the parents' fault usually either."

So whose fault are they then, Xenia? The child's fault? Or are some babies born destined to develop eating disorders regardless of upbringing?

And why are they so much more prevalent in academically high-pressured single-sex school environments than they are in other educational settings?

hmmmm, my sister went to a very highly thought of single sex private school.
out of 26 children in her form, 22 (count 'em) had anorexia or bulimia.

my parents pulled her out - sent her to a (mixed) private school instead.

funnily enough she became far less obsessed with her looks/weight/clothes than at the all girls highly competitive, pressurised school. coincidence?

GS,it's hard to work out. A certain sort of girl will overachieve, nothing much to do with parental pressure and so she's more likely to get into an academic selective school. The roots of these disorders are hard to find. My daughter's friend with anorexia at 10, that girl's mother had it but I don't know if there's a genetic link. My brother is a psychiatrist and specialises in exactly this. It's an awful mental illness which often kills.

I think how we deal with our children up to the age of 7 has a major impact on how they turn out but I know some psychiatric propensities are inherited such as some depression and I think schizophrenia so we wreck this pain on our own children through our genes... a sad business.

The possibility of a genetic propensity is very interesting. I would be delighted to see real advances in understanding and preventing these dreadful heartbreaking disorders.

I do feel that there is a correlation between highly pressurised ultra-academic single-sex education and eating disorders though, Xenia. The evidence is just too compelling. Although I agree that that is not the whole picture.

One possiblity is that the girls who attend these schools tend to come from the kind of families which feature the predisposing conditions for the development of self-destructive adolescent behaviour (eating disorders are not the only rife manifestation of this). I'm thinking of factors such as high expectation in both academic and extra-curricular activities, emotional distance, non-parental childcare from a very early age - you know the sort of thing.

Sometimes it's too much parental interference though, over fussy mothers, forcing your toddler to eat it's dinner etc though....
It's a chicken and egg thing - the girls get into St Paul's and get 11 A* because they are driven and their personality is perfectionist. My daughter's friend is like that. You could rely on her to know every date for homework, everything absolutely precise. Yet my daughters who eat like a horse and were at those kinds of schools and are normal size 10 aren't like that. I think it's how they're made in part. Reading a mother's description of helping her daughter over her anorexia in a colour magazine last night using the Maudsley Method which seemed to work for them, sitting with her at each meal until she ate etc, I couldn't see anything in her description that would have cause the girl to be like that (and she wasn't at a high powered school). I think it's a control thing - food is the one thing you can control. A lot do die. It had some awful statistics in terms of future fertility and future chance of living a normal married life having your own children too.

I think day schools can be safer - you get your daughter home each night to talk to, love, feed, check. In the schools my girls were at they weren't pressured at all. Some girls internally pressurise themselves but every girl there is clever enough to do well so there's no need for particular pressure. The schools do down the pressure. I wouldn't have minded mine having more pressure but they're very laid back girls.

No. Dh went to academic schools, some private, some selective. Did very well and graduated, followed almost immediately by a breakdown.

The amount of unhappiness in his life is depressing in itself.

But who knows? He has continued to work along an academic line, taking professional examinations and surviving in a pressured role. He can now work for himself, which works better IMO, as he has that rare professional qualification so can charge a good rate for a smaller amount of hours.

I wonder if the habits of discipline and order he got into have paid off in terms of keeping him somehow on track despite some truly appalling depressive and psychotic episodes.

The genetic pattern in his family is pretty strong. Maybe he needed that strong structure to achieve anything in life? I type a lot of referral letters for people who have illnesses like him, and they are existing, self-medicating on drugs and alcohol, achieving nothing in terms of productive work, voluntary or paid.

I feel in a quandary about what's best to do for ds - I am prioritising stability and local schools as I still have close friends I met the day I went to school who have been all the way through primary, secondary and university with me - I think that kind of network is very, very important. But I do believe in exams as proof of what you can do, even seeing that dh is practically allergic to them now after so many.

I would just like to add to the posts from Greensleeves and Xenia.

I come from a working class background and went to the local state schools. I was a desperately high acheiving child who strove to be the best at everything academically. I got straight Astars at GCSE and 5 As at A level. I would have felt a failure if I had got anything less. I then went on to study at University.

Whilst I was at school my parents encouraged me but could not be described as having been pushy. All they ever said was that I should try to do my best; the issue was that I felt me best should be perfect.

My mum was quite a claustrophobic parent and although we get on well now and I love her dearly my adolescence was a time of conflict between us as I struggled to achieve freedom and individuality. I think that this need to control myself was a big factor in what happened to me.

From the age of 14 I developed anorexia and became quite ill but luckily never needed hospital admission. I slowly recovered and today I would appear normal although Im very aware that my body image is not quite normal and I would feel fat if I were bigger than a size 8.

I think that what Im trying to illustrate is that for many girls it is something within themselves that is triggered by an outside influence which in turn leads to the development of an eating disorder.

Viewing thinness as perfection will lead to girls in academic high achieving schools developing eating disorders but if you put the same girls in the local state comp then maybe something else will provide the trigger.

I got very good exam results and a place at Oxford, but I was a very unhappy child, and had depression by the time I left school (private, single sex, high achieving Oxbridge hothouse).