This is the pushy parent Tiffin tutor thread.

[uwila]

Okay, so wh ohas used a Tiffin tutor? Did it get your kid(s) into Tiffin? How old were they when they strted tutoring?

Okay, so my DD is only 3 1/2 but I like to plan ahead/. I've heard you can sign up for tutors that increase your chances of getting into Tiffin (boys and girls schools).

Any experience/opinions welcome.

Thanks.

I know people who turned down places at Tiffins Boys and Girls in favour of the less academic emphasis in some of the Sutton grammar schools.

A alternative to a private tutor in this area is {http://www.explorelearning.ltd.uk/\Explore Learning} . They do 11-plus tuition for children in Year 5.

maybe.. maybe.. if you pay out for a private school you're less inclined to admit that you're then paying for tutoring on top as your child either has a little problem with one or two things OR simply struggles with the lot.

that's my suspicion anyway

I've never found the few parents in private secondary schools who I've known use tutors want to hide it particularly. Some children are just bone idle and having a neutral third party tutor to make them get on with something does them a lot of good. Other parents have a fixed idea that little Johnnie must be a doctor or accountant despite him not fulfilling his early academic promise and they force tutoring down his throat that probably won't do any good.

I'm not sure the A level revision courses helped any of the three older children hugely (Easter before A level) but they asked and chose to do them and found that daily direction and revision helpful and daughter 2 had some very good tutors on that. If instead you'd work well on your own all Easter that's fine. I remember asking the schools about those courses and they said there was no harm and some girls had found them helpful.

you get the sense with the Blairs though, that had he not been a politician, they'd have happily packed their lot off to private school.

There was an interesting thread last year where someone pointed out that a teacher in one of the grammars had said that those who needed intensive tutoring to pass the entrance exam, then went on to struggle and need extra help throughout the whole of secondary school (and were well aware that they were struggling and couldn't keep up). Personally, I think it's unfair to put that sort of pressure on a child if they really can't cope with the academic pace.

Not sure about the Blairs. They're both quite left wing so I'm not sure they'd have paid depite Tony Blair going to Fettes.

Some parents pay for private schools to age 11 so the children are a year ahead or whatever and prepared for entrance tests and move to the state sector at 11. I suppose tutoring whilst you're in a state primary school is a similar principle. We have been told, perhaps wrongly that the academic primary schools are at least one year ahead of the state schools in terms of the work done so that must give an advantage which some

Its a shame though that most boroughs don't have decent grammars like Sutton's anymore, so the only option is either an aspirational school like Tiffins, or the total crap local comp (Grey Court in our borough).

When I 11, we all just did the 11+ and many more children had the chance to go to grammar schools, as there were so many local grammars.

Foxinsox - I agree with you regarding the tutoring. I think its one thing to give the kids a little preparation for an exam in terms of understanding what the examiners are looking for, quite another to burn a child out with endless tutoring, when lets face it a lot of the motivation is to make the parents feel good about themselves.

With regard to the private schools I'm shocked by the amount of homework some of DS's friends get, who attend private schools. They just seem so young to be spending so much of their free time studying.

What is the point of tutoring a privately educated child in how to revise for her A levels? That is crazy. Shouldn t all that expensive education have instilled a bit of self-reliance. If she can t study independently and manage her time how is supposed to cope at univsersity.

Well done to the colleges who are not allowing these over-prepped kids to take all the places from state school children who have achieved their grades by their own efforts, not because Mummy forked out hundreds of quid to hold their hands through revision time.

well that's a whole other consideration isn't it... maybe by the time our LOs are ready for A levels, it will be an advantage to be from a state school. so better to get good grades from a state school than excellent grades from a private school when it comes to getting into unis.

They're very popular. You get a lot of state school pupils at them too. The cost is minimal if you're already paying fees and if the child wants to go on them that's better than them deciding to spend the Easter holiday surfing or doing their nails so I was quite happy to pay. They weren't taught how to revise. They were given extra help on whatever modules of the particular board's A levels they had been doing. Some of the standard of the teaching my daughter said was brilliant. She was very enthused by the sessions. They have 900 students on the East revision courses I think, the place one of my daughters went to - www.mpw.co.uk/lon/easter-revision.asp?scW=1600

My other daughter did a residentail one at an Oxford college and enjoyed the night life too although I'm not sure that's quite the point!

am, not what the best private schools have found. No bias against them and as many girls as ever going to the universities they want.
I see students from state and privaet schools will be asked if their parents went to university soon... he he he - that will be interesting. You'll be disadvantaged if the universities are stupid enough to do so, because your parents however poor you are and however bad your comp is because your parents have a degree. What fun Blair's education policy is.

Grey Court's not too bad fox. We have a friend with a child there atm.

I dunno Xenia - lots of people's left wing principles seem to go up in smoke when it comes to their childrens' education. Look at Ruth Kelly and Diane Abbott.

children's

and lol jura - I also have a lazy dd (who, funnily enough, also gets it from her dad ). I doubt she would take very well to tutoring!

I just think of Prince Harry getting "extra tuition", to the extent of his art teacher doing his course work, so he could scrapean A level.

Tutoring to get into a school, or a bit of catch up on a particular subject is one thing, but tutoring a child through a revision timetable is, in my view, teetering on the verge of cheating.

"Tutoring a child through a revision timetable is, in my view, teetering on the verge of cheating."
I don't quite know how that is so. It was really an extension of what they did at school. In other words like going to school over the Easter holidays rather than being sent home to work on your own. There's no law that says you're only allowed X days teaching a year to sit an A level and if you exceed the days you cheat is there? In fact the 4 week private school easter holiday is probably 2 weeks shorter than state schools so 2 weeks on a revisoin course may be is just giving you the lessons the state school pupils are getting anyway. Most children at private schools don't do those Easter revision courses. Mine just chose to and if you've a child who's actually asking to work in the Easter holiday particularly my fairly laid back ones you jump at the chance.

In Ireland extra tutoring used to be called a 'grind'. Great name eh????

Tony Blair left wing. Why does that sound sooooo odd to me?

I have started (many thanks to foxabout2pop) making enquiries about tutors.

The one I spoke to tutors specifically for Tiffins as the VR & NVR exams are so different to the standard independent school exams (ie English, Maths and a bit of VR). She said that only children in the top sets for literacy & numeracy should apply, and even those who are very bright have less chance of getting in if they have no tutoring in this kind of exam. For one thing, speed is necessary in answering these kind of questions so practice is important.

Apparently these exams were meant to level the playing field and find those with native intelligence & good at problem-solving, but as time has passed it has developed into a subject of its' own. It sounds like even the cleverest child stands no chance if they've never done this kind of thing.

The tutor stressed thinking about what kind of school would suit the child best, not just at 11 but at 16. Both Tiffins are very tough, very academic, although there are lots of other activities as well. It's difficult to judge at Open Days as they are so crowded.

The tutoring is usually 1 session of 1.5 hours a week, with an hour's homework. They normally start in January a year before the exam, although increasingly some are starting in the September (so they would have 4 terms of tutoring). The turor in question recommends booking at the beginning of yr 4.

So it seems that if Tiffin is your main choice it's best to tutor even the brightest children. I forgot to ask about cost, does anyone else know this? I'm still doing research so will report further if anyone is interested.

it's in the tutor's interest to tell you that though bettys.

True, but do they do VR & NVR in Yr 6?
Are past papers available to practise at home?
Does anyone know a child who got in without any extra tutoring of any kind?
Tiffins isn't my main choice at this point, and just researching all the options.

You can't get specific Tiffin papers, but you can get heaps of VR/NVR 11+ practice papers from places like Smiths. All the Y5 and 6 children I know seem to be being tutored/have been tutored, for Tiffin or independent schools. Have to say I don't know anyone personally who has got in to Tiffin (don't know that many older children), but know some children who have sat it this year and are waiting for results.

Ooh I didn't know you could get those in Smiths, must go look.

These people sell packets of VR, NVR, English and Maths test papers and helpful books explaining how to do VR and NVR questions. I think tutoring costs around £30 an hour. I think there was someone earlier on the thread who knew someone who got in to Tiffin without tutoring. My eldest got into a grammar school (not Tiffin) without tutoring. I think you have to ask yourself what a tutor might do that you couldn't (and what else you might prefer to spend £30 a week on...).